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Marine Journal - Red Sea Max 130D


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#21 aussiemcgee

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 09:05 AM

Hi mate,

 

Without trying burst your bubbles, I would go a bit easier than what you are doing - a 2 week cycle is not long enough before starting to add a heap of stock, particularly if you still have detectable NH4, No3.

Suggest holding off for now and do a series of regular WCs before adding any more.

 

The problem is that if you don't cycle your tank properly, the rock takes up the high NO3/ PO4 and then continues to leach these nutrients into the water for ages even after you have undetectable params, which equals algae probs and slowed Lps and especially SPS growth

 

When I cycled my tank I started with base rock, let that cycle for 4 weeks, did a 50 - 70% WC, then added a few small pieces of Live rock (with plenty of coralline on them), and then let that cycle for another 4 weeks before another 50 - 70%WC. Then I started to add stock... slowly.

 

There is no substitute for large regular WC IMO - at the moment I am doing 50% weekly and my system is loving it!

I haven't updated my journal for a while but details are in this marine section under Ryan's 6 x 1 x 2



#22 Blakey

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 09:15 AM

Hey mate!
I was lucky in that my tank had a live system when I got it (media and substrate) - so basically the water was new and the rock was new and this has gone through basically a miniature cycle is what I would call it.

I anticipate nitrates and AMM to be undetectable by Thursday morning.

I have read and heard from the horses mouth so to speak about the cycling stage and well aware that longer is better but if I have a cultured filter system, substrate and the live rock is cranking along I'm prepared to risk it for the biscuit. Best way to learn is by experimentation and mistakes and I want to know first hand how it all works so I guess this is my trial and error stage.

The coral pieces are small like tiny tiny bits and if they die they die I will write it in to my tank diary and measure the params and get it right next time :)

Appreciate the awesome feed back though good read and I will check your tank journal out tonight bro!

Today's Ammonia is almost undetectable
Nitrates have halved over night

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#23 malawiman85

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 09:27 AM

Very nice LR. I see heaps of tanks with just random blobs of rock, its definitely worth paying a bit more for nice pieces. . 



#24 Blakey

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 10:50 AM

Yeh I really wanted to add more - but the more rock the less water. Would rather have as much precious water as possible especially in such a small tank.
I may add another piece I think as it have a pretty good idea how I want to scape.. But it will be similar to that middle piece.

#25 MrLeifBeaver

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 03:39 PM

Hey Blakey, Looking good so far.

 

I know I said get the $30 Deal (as it had clean up crew and some fishes in it), but I also do agree with Aussie Mcgee.

Even with a primed filter, crystal clear tank and the paremeters are all super low, I would still hold to the side of caution before adding anything more in.

 

You're right about the live rock mix to water, I want more rock too but then I would have no water ha ha.



#26 Blakey

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 05:08 PM

at the expense of looking like a dick I will still probably get it wing it and fail at it.

I actually have to move house this week so I just texted to see if they can hold for a couple of weeks as I need to empty, move and fill it back up by this weekend. Really sucks disturbing it so soon.

Will keep you all posted.

Green Chromis RULE by the way. So active!!

#27 MrLeifBeaver

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 05:20 PM

Yes. It is your tank in the end :) At least that move will slow you down.



#28 Blakey

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 08:07 PM

Question though without sounding arrogant.
If you guys say it's ok and good to do 50-70% water changes of new water.. Then what's the difference between a 3 month old tank and a 3 year old tank if at any given time only 25% of the water is new?
As far as I understand marine aquariums are more about biological filtration, so once the tank has cycled then shouldn't it be 'ready' ?

I am baffled at what the difference to 3 months and 12 months is IF people are changing 50% of the water on a regular basis.

#29 MrLeifBeaver

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 08:59 PM

I think it is more to the with the balance of algea, bacteria and the likes. The filter being seeded, the worms and animlas are growing and dieing at the right times, i think the cycle is like a life cycle instead.

I also think there are multiple cycles in the tank, not just a 2 weeker. To do with bacteria growth times, invertibreate growth and death rates. After a year i assume the tank is doing full cycles of all growing items.

 

Water just helps reset the ammonia and nitrates, but it is not changing the live rock, coraline, etc.


Edited by MrLeifBeaver, 15 September 2014 - 09:00 PM.


#30 Blakey

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 07:27 AM

Interesting. I'm glad I made the jump to salt - I like being out of my comport zone.

#31 Blakey

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 01:58 AM

Ammonia is below 0.25 ppm and Nitrates below 10 now.<br />Moving the tank to new house next couple days so will whack it with some fresh (salt) water.<br />Will leave her go for as long as I can

#32 Blakey

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 01:58 AM

Ammonia is below 0.25 ppm and Nitrates below 10 now.<br />Moving the tank to new house next couple days so will whack it with some fresh (salt) water.<br />

#33 aussiemcgee

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:48 PM

If you guys say it's ok and good to do 50-70% water changes of new water.. Then what's the difference between a 3 month old tank and a 3 year old tank if at any given time only 25% of the water is new?
As far as I understand marine aquariums are more about biological filtration, so once the tank has cycled then shouldn't it be 'ready' ?

I am baffled at what the difference to 3 months and 12 months is IF people are changing 50% of the water on a regular basis.

 

 

Marine systems are all about stability of core parameters;

for example;

Heaters/ chillers to maintain temp

Fresh water auto top off systems to replace evaporation and maintain salinity

Dosing pumps to maintain trace elements

Refugiums and Deep sand beds to mitigate NO2/ NO3 and PO4

 

The difference between a 3 month old tank and 3 years is the maturity of the bacteria for biological filtration - same as in fresh, if you have a canister filter that is used to handling the bioload of 3 goldfish and then you throw 3 big Oscars in and a bunch of bristlenose in, the bacteria in the filter wouldn't be able to cope with the extra feed and fish waste and there will be an ammonia spike which will affect fish health and could even cause deaths. But if you add stock slowly, bacteria numbers have time to adjust accordingly.

 

Many people have different maintenance schedules depending on tank size, bioload etc. Some do it weekly, fortnightly, monthly even yearly - challenge is to do what works for you and your system.

 

The other difference with between the 2, is that the longer the NH4 and NO3 stays high, the more will be absorbed by the rock and leach back into the system no matter how many water changes you do - that is why you want undetectable parameters before any stock is added.

It is a particularly big problem with second hand systems having nutrients locked into the rock, many people go to great lengths to 'cycle' second hand rock in RO water before it even goes into the new home in order to draw out as much NO3/ PO4 as possible.

 

Another thing is any deviation from the norm will spark a mini- cycle ie disturbing the sand bed, moving rock around. If you are moving house then you will definitely experience a second cycle.

 

Don't think I am being all narky or anything but after being in the hobby for 5 - 6 years now, I have done things the hard way and blown a bit of cash and lost a few fish and corals. It is a steep learning curve going fresh - marine and am just chuckin in my 2 cents worth to help the newbies.

The old saying for marine tanks is that nothing good ever happens fast  !

hope it helps.

 

Ryan



#34 Blakey

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 10:47 PM

 <br /> <br />Marine systems are all about stability of core parameters;<br />for example;<br />Heaters/ chillers to maintain temp<br />Fresh water auto top off systems to replace evaporation and maintain salinity<br />Dosing pumps to maintain trace elements<br />Refugiums and Deep sand beds to mitigate NO2/ NO3 and PO4<br /> <br />The difference between a 3 month old tank and 3 years is the maturity of the bacteria for biological filtration - same as in fresh, if you have a canister filter that is used to handling the bioload of 3 goldfish and then you throw 3 big Oscars in and a bunch of bristlenose in, the bacteria in the filter wouldn't be able to cope with the extra feed and fish waste and there will be an ammonia spike which will affect fish health and could even cause deaths. But if you add stock slowly, bacteria numbers have time to adjust accordingly.<br /> <br />Many people have different maintenance schedules depending on tank size, bioload etc. Some do it weekly, fortnightly, monthly even yearly - challenge is to do what works for you and your system.<br /> <br />The other difference with between the 2, is that the longer the NH4 and NO3 stays high, the more will be absorbed by the rock and leach back into the system no matter how many water changes you do - that is why you want undetectable parameters before any stock is added.<br />It is a particularly big problem with second hand systems having nutrients locked into the rock, many people go to great lengths to 'cycle' second hand rock in RO water before it even goes into the new home in order to draw out as much NO3/ PO4 as possible.<br /> <br />Another thing is any deviation from the norm will spark a mini- cycle ie disturbing the sand bed, moving rock around. If you are moving house then you will definitely experience a second cycle.<br /> <br />Don't think I am being all narky or anything but after being in the hobby for 5 - 6 years now, I have done things the hard way and blown a bit of cash and lost a few fish and corals. It is a steep learning curve going fresh - marine and am just chuckin in my 2 cents worth to help the newbies.<br />The old saying for marine tanks is that nothing good ever happens fast  !<br />hope it helps.<br /> <br />Ryan

<br /><br />Mate that's all the words I wanted to hear!!! I'm learning so your advice and experiences are important to me.<br />I'm not getting the corals now and keeping to how it is.<br />Hopefully the tank won't be disturbed too much (I know it will) but it settles down quicker.<br />After moving and stirring it all up again how long do you think? Or is that a silly question as every tank I'm assuming would be different I guess and I would have toes sure and see.

#35 MrLeifBeaver

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 09:18 AM

Aussie's post certainly shed some light for me too. Thanks Mcgee!



#36 Blakey

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 12:57 PM

Tank is moved now.<br /><br />Worst thing is it's in a 'cavernous' spot in the new house and the powerheads and skimmers are EFFING LOUD!!!!!<br /><br />needless to say next pay new pumps are replacing these ones ones (hydor pico) and currently looking for an appropriate skimmer. This is ridiculously loud with the acousticness of this position.

#37 Blakey

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 01:12 PM

Tank is moved now.<br /><br />Worst thing is it's in a 'cavernous' spot in the new house and the powerheads and skimmers are EFFING LOUD!!!!!<br /><br />needless to say next pay new pumps are replacing these ones ones (hydor pico) and currently looking for an appropriate skimmer. This is ridiculously loud with the acousticness of this position.
Tank is moved.<br /><br />It's in a cavernous spot now so the pumps / skimmer is so loud.<br />They will be replaced.<br /><br />Also the lighting I need more night time light so lookin at a controllable LED.<br />China has one for $66 inc post.<br />What kind of like do I need 10,000k ? And dark blue? They sent me a specific list they can do

#38 Blakey

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 10:40 AM

I have a green Nudibrach!!!
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#39 Blakey

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 06:17 PM

Update.<br /><br />Mantis Shrimp is now gone.<br />Ammonia < 0.25ppm but still a tinge of green.<br />Nitrates < 10ppm but still above 5 and detectable.<br /><br />Having problems with the temp at the new house and it has been high.<br />Have turned the heater off for today to try and get it down.<br />Everything else stable.<br /><br />I need to buy a phosphate kit I think too.<br /><br />One question.<br />I have Red Sea ABC powder.<br />On the back it had a measurement system but no idea what exactly it is relevant too? Just the calcium?Attached File  ImageUploadedByTapatalk1411294649.074220.jpg   351.93KB   8 downloads

#40 Blakey

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 09:06 AM

Whoops I got coral. Couldn't say no for $20! Attached File  ImageUploadedByTapatalk1411347971.097611.jpg   552.6KB   8 downloadsAttached File  ImageUploadedByTapatalk1411347996.512887.jpg   416.46KB   8 downloads




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