58 replies to this topic

[Thalium]

Donna,

if you want send me a pm i have 2 different water conditioners and a different brand test kit you can try I'm only ten minutes up the road from rockingham and maybe you can test everything side by side I'm happy to lend them to you to try and nut out the problem



Michael

[Codfather]

Hi Donna,

I'm admiring your perseverance. Sorry for misleading you with the Nessler's reagent. Things have changed a bit since I was into the hobby.
I think maybe it's a bit too obvious, but is it possible that there is fertilizer contained in the root ball of any of the plants in the affected tanks?

[Mr_docfish]

It must be the ammonia fairy, who sneaks into your house every night to pee in your tanks

Keep up that detective work Donna

Cheers
Brett

I've got a bug zapper you can borrow.......lol

[Donna]

Hi everyone,

After exhaustive testing strictly adhering to the conventions of the scientific method and sound deductive thinking, it is clear that there is, in fact an ammonia fairy.

My hypothesis: If there is seeded filters, low stock and regular water changes and high ammonia levels persist, even increase at an expotential rate, then there is an ammonia fairy responsible for "twinkling" into my tanks.

Problem solved.

Actually, got a brand new two bottles for my test kit and readings are still high. Oliver, my intention was to send you the old bottles if they were faulty so you could confirm, but it seems like it is not the kit after all, which I actually suspected was the case.

The possibilities are endless.....

Not using enough conditioner
Faulty conditioner
Too much conditioner
Filters are ineffective at this time for whatever reason (which again opens up a huge number of possibilities
pH, kH, gH problems interferring with good bacteria growth (poor buffering ability in the water)
The picture book I found in the tank has had some effect on the water

However you look at it the filters are unable to cope with the ammonia at this time for whatever reason....not very helpul to me when I have fish I "adopted" that need to go into the larger tank (I inherited two large featherfins, a large green severum, a gourami(small) and a super large BN) all but the featherfins are in the metre tank and I was hoping to let them stretch out in the bigger tank permanently but I can't risk it)

You add to the list of possibiities.....

Will keep you posted.

Regards,

Donna

[Donna]

Hi everyone,

Here is a hypothetical given that I only have two tetra and two kribs in the tank with high ammonia. Let's say the tank is re cycling for whatever reason, doesn't really matter now.

What if I remove those fish now? (I am thinking the ammonia must be in the less harmful form otherwise the fish would be showing signs of distress.)

Will the cycle still continue? Will the nitrite start to rise soon as expected and will I eventually get the nitrifying bacteria I need with the amount of ammonia currenty present in the tank.

I have dropped the feeding of these fish significantly, and I am really feeling uncomfortable about them being in there at all. I would prefer to put them in my other tank where I know they are safe.

However, I realise there needs to be waste being produced. I guess my question is, has there been enough of an ammonia spike to complete the cycle even if I take my fish out?

Opinions are welcome.

Regards,

Donna

[Donna]

Hi Everyone,

Just an update.

Tank has just two tetra and one male krib. Is moderately planted as some of them went see thru when the ammonia levels rose. Plants and fish appear to be fine. Continuing a moderate feeding regime. Temp around 27C. Aeration increased. Filter media increased. Still using some zeolite but happy to remove it on advice.

ph = 6

kH = 0-1 because the water does not go blue at all, goes yellow on first drop

ammonia = 4ppm

nitrite = 0

nitrate = 0

From this I deduce that there is no nitrification going on in this tank whatsoever. As this has been going on for weeks all I can assume is that there are very few bacteria if not none involved in nitrification. The only reason the fish seem unaffected is because the ammonia is present in it's less toxic form due to low pH and kH.

So my next step would be to increase the hardness of the water as it seems to be the missing link in the process. I have added a good deal of limestone and I am hoping this will increase the buffering capability of my water.

Please comment and see if I am on the right track as this tank is going to waste. I would like to use it to house all my roughies who are currently digging up my planted display tank as it seems to be handling the load no problem. Currently I am afraid to put them in there.

Thanks,

Donna

[Donna]

Ok, put in 30 drops and the water just kept getting more yellow. Now I am really confused Someone please analyse and respond.
the other readings from my post above still stand. I have been using the following as a guide to try and reproduce optimum conditions for nitrification.

http://www.geyserpum...trification.htm

Thanks,

Donna

edited to more accurately describe the reaction.

[Cawdor]

30?? Wow. Can you tell me what brand the test is? Maybe it measures differently. Because kH of 30 would be pretty impossible to reach even if you tried!
The brand I use is API.

[Donna]

Hi Tim,

API is what I use also. Just let me run the procedure by you. I get my test tube, rinse it thoroughly in tap water, then rinse it in the tank and fill it to 5mls. Then start dropping away.

I thought it was the amount of drops used to turn the water yellow that indicated the kH. Mine goes yellow on the first drop and just keeps getting yellower. That's how I got the idea the kH was very low like 0-1 as I said in my first post today.

If I test the tap water, it goes blue first and then yellow after three drops.

So I must be wrong then? You are not looking for a transition from blue to yellow? But from yellow to blue?


What do you think of the link I attached? I find it really easy to understand.

Maybe I need to start thinking about what could cause false readings in this tank full stop.

Thanks,

Donna

[Donna]

You have to keep putting the drops in, shaking after each drop, until it turns blue. The amount of drops indicates your KH.

Oh, I have been putting drops in until it turns yellow, which is on the first drop for my tank water. I put in thirty drops and it just kept getting yellower and yellower.

[Cawdor]

Sorry my bad - after the first drop it turns blue! Then you add a single drop, shaking each time, until it turns yellow.You were saying it turns yellow straight away - is that the same with tapwater? If yes, then the kit is probably faulty. Tapwater around my area has a KH or about 4.

[Krystal]

Ill keep this short cause im at work....

The API KH Test kit should turn from blue to yellow. If it goes yellow straight away then your KH is 0.....Nitrifying bacteria need carbonates in the water to be able to convert ammonia into nitrite....i have found that a tank will have major difficulties converting ammonia of there are no carbonates. Raise this to approx 3-4 degrees and you should see results.

[Donna]

Thanks Krystal,

Precisely what I thought as you can see in a previous post. I have added a significant amount of limestone to the tank to try and raise the hardness. I do not want to start using addititives as I am not sure how to use them properly.

Thanks for the confirmation,

Regards,

Donna

[Donna]

Hi Everyone,

An update on the ammonia mystery. It still remains a mystery as to how the ammonia got so high. Particularly in a tank that is so sparsely stocked, from the outset.

That will remain a mystery. However, tank status now


Ammonia = 8ppm

Nitrite = 0.25 ppm

Nitrate = 10 ppm

I am taking this to mean cycling is underway......at last. 2-4 days ago, nitrite was nil, nitrate was nil.


Ammonia is still high, but I am assuming the presence of nitrite and nitrate means the cycle is beginning. I would appreciate any comments. I realise there will be time where there will be some overlap with high ammonia and nitrite.

Still waiting on advice on the question, can I now remove all my stock and trust that the cycle will continue. The tetra have been with me a long time and I would prefer not to have them suffer.

Comments welcome.

Regards,

Donna

All stock now removed save for two tetra that I can't catch

[Mr_docfish]

The bacteria that convert the nitrite to nitrate do not like ammonia above 1ppm, so to get them to grow and multiply, I would suggest reducing the ammonia as much as you can.

[Donna]

Did another reading today.....


Ammonia 4ppm

Nitrite Same as above

Nitrate 20ppm

So I would say that nitrates are being produced.


When can I expect the ammonia to drop to 0ppm? I have never had ammonia in my tanks before (that I know of) unless cycling for the first time....readings are usually zero.


Thanks again Oliver

[Mr_docfish]

The bacteria that convert the nitrite will grow faster as the ammonia levels drop down (the ideal maximum ammonia level for the second stage bacteria "nitrobacter" is 1ppm) they still function at higher ammonia levels, but not to their peak....
Since the levels are going down obviously, then I'd say give it a couple of days and the ammonia will be gone, and give it about another week for the nitrite to go.

[Donna]

Hi Everyone,

Just an update.

Ammonia 1ppm

Nitrite can't find the card but is very light purple (just off blue)

Nitrate: orange

So Oliver, seems to be going as predicted allbeit slower than I would have liked. In a few days I am hoping I can expect zero for ammonia and nitrite.

I have added a canister filter so hopefully it will seed up nicely and I will be able to have the confidence to move my "retirees" to this tank as was originally intended and get my planted display tank back

Thanks for all the comments.

Regards,

Donna

[Donna]

Hi Everyone,

The above post turned out to be a false alarm and the tank had not cycled and continued to show evidence of ammonia.

However, I think I can now safely say that the tank has cycled. Oppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrite, 10ppm nitrate. I have added some fish and they are going well. Levels are holding.

I don't know when I made that first post but this has been the longest time taken to cycle a tank in history.

I recently added more media to my canister and perhaps this has helped. I also have been using half conditioned tap water and half from a container that has aged in the yard.

Anyway, hopefully I now have some closure. Thanks to all those who offered help and gave me some moral support during this time.

Regards,

Donna