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Cant Get Ammonia Down


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#21 nvrenuf

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 09:17 PM

what if i was to get a bucket of water from my friends tank would i just introduce this to my tank ?

or should i get his media and squeese it into a bucket with some water and then bring it to my house and ppour it into my tank ?

or would i put it in my filter ?would be dirty if i got from filter.

how long could water stay in bucket and transport with out bacteria dying

Edited by nvrenuf, 16 January 2011 - 09:26 PM.


#22 Mr_docfish

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 09:28 PM

adding sludge from another filter can speed the process up, but the issue is with the amount of ammonia being produced every day until the filters catch up..... while there is ammonia, best to stop the feeding - the fish can live for weeks without food, but will die if the ammonia stays up too high for too long.

Edited by Mr_docfish, 16 January 2011 - 09:29 PM.


#23 nvrenuf

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 09:38 PM

i worry they get hungry little buggers lol..

i ll cut feeding right back

#24 sandgroper

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 09:39 PM

Yep to many fish, in to little amount of time =trouble.It always pays to be patient especially when cycling a tank from scratch. Build your numbers up slowly over time = less heartache.But whats done is done you'll just have to ride it out and expect some losses.

#25 Tropo

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 10:22 PM


or should i get his media and squeese it into a bucket with some water and then bring it to my house
(Yes)

or would i put it in my filter ?would be dirty if i got from filter.
(Yes put it in your filter dont worry if its dirty thats good)

how long could water stay in bucket and transport with out bacteria dying
(Only guessing but I would say at least a hour)

As stated earlier in the topic 50 fish is way to many to cycle a tank, if you can temperaraly house the bulk of these fish elsewhere this would be beneficial. Try the method above and hopefully this will jumpstart the nitrosomonas and nitrobacter enough so you dont see any huge spikes. Might pay to read up on the nitrogen cycle will answer most of your questions. I have three sumps full of good media so if you want some no worries. All the best

Cheers Guy


#26 nvrenuf

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 06:20 AM

Thanks mate, If we were a bit closer where we live I would take you up on that offer.

I could pull some water from my Beta Tank as it's levels are good, though Not sure there would be enough in there to make any impact ?



#27 Tropo

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 07:05 AM



I could pull some water from my Beta Tank as it's levels are good, though Not sure there would be enough in there to make any impact ?

What sort of filter do you have on your beta tank? If it has multiple sponges, media, noodles etc: Rinse some of that directly into the bottom of your cannister. wink.gif

Aged aquarium water will not do the job quick enough remember you have 50 fish pooin. Otherwise go to your lfs and ask if they need to clean one of there filters. Also maybe some aged aquarium gravel with some sludge might do the trick. (In your filter). You can use products like zeolite, amolock, carbon etc: but imo this will hinder the cycling process.
Cheers Guy


#28 nvrenuf

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 07:09 AM

Yeah the beta tank has a Hang on filter with few different media in it.

I have zeolite in one of my filters not the other.

#29 nvrenuf

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 06:35 PM

hi guys,

Just thought I would see what thoughts are,

Checking my Levels,

Ph still 8.0 ~8.2
Nitrite 0
Nitrate is 10ppm
Ammonia is still around 0.5 ~ 1

Any ideas, Been doing water changes every 2 days,

fish shop said he is going to lend me a established filter to run for a few weeks,
though wouldnt nitrate being 10ppm be an indication of working filters ?

Could the ammonia not be free ammonia and be compund ammonia instead ?

Any ideas ?

Regards

Tim

#30 Mr_docfish

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 09:34 PM

whatever amount of ammonia is being converted into nitrite, is being immediately converted into nitrate.... the situation you have is the ammonia production on a daily basis is too much for the level of bacteria you currently have in your filter.... this can be for three reasons -

more time is needed for the bacteria to build up
insufficient suitable media surface area for the amount of bacteria needed
too fast flow of water - bacteria need time to convert the ammonia....

Check the water is not bypassing the media in the filter, check the flow rate coming out of the filter (fill a jug of water from the outlet and work out how long it takes to fill 1litre)
avoid using products that contain dyes like malachite green and methylene blue, and dont over dose the water conditioner/ammonia converters too much.
maintain the pH at around 7.0 (not less than 6.5) and KH at or above 20ppm
stop feeding the fish for over a week, and then only feed frozen food every few days ( = more water and less protein)

that is all you can do ...... and then wait.

just checking...... you have removed the filter material in the eheim from the plastic bags? - have to ask - seen it before....

Edited by Mr_docfish, 21 January 2011 - 09:38 PM.


#31 Ivan Sng

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 10:18 PM

Well not sure if someone has covered this, but how much aeration do you have?? Oxygen is required for the nitrification and so does the high quantites of fish... Increasing your aeration for a few days might help the process along...

#32 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 12:10 AM

your fish are probably already pickled..... ammonia damages your fish...... as does carbon monoxide your lungs......

a little carbon monoxide for a short time and your lungs might be ok....

a little carbon monoxide for a longer period of time will leave you with permanently damaged lungs although you may live a little longer....

too much carbon monoxide and your dead.... RIP....

hope that shines some light on your tank.....

AMMONIA is the number ONE killer of aquarium fish... guess you wont forget it now....

theres plenty of advice on what to do over the last posts so i'd get cracking in a hurry and hope for the best.....

Edited by bigjohnnofish, 22 January 2011 - 09:53 PM.


#33 kesaph

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 12:34 AM

Frequent water changes are essential, but are you dechlorinating the water every time you do a change?
Chlorine and chloramine will kill off the bacteria in your filters, thus stalling, even stopping the cycle process.

You probably are, but worth double checking.

#34 nvrenuf

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 06:46 AM

So bit more time and more water changes ? at least it's on the right path towards getting fully cycled >?

would it be a good idea to still get this internal established filter of my lfs to stick in for couple weeks. ?

I have plenty of airation,
and two filters running
Eheim with all its quality media no bags haha
and china spec canister with noodles and sponge stuff.
and zeolite

#35 gibbs

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 07:03 AM

nvrenuf, i had a similar issue a few months back. My problem began when i medicated a tank that had been established for a year.

Amonnia hung around for 4 or 5 months in a lighly stocked 6x2x2. In the end i through an internal power head filter 2200ltr/hr that was full of carbon and did a 25% water change ever 2 weeks. The ammonia disappeared about a month later. I removed the filter and the tank has been good ever since.

Carbon might help

#36 Barf

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 07:50 AM

QUOTE (gibbs @ Jan 22 2011, 07:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
lighly stocked



Hey Gibbs was that lightly or highly rolleyes.gif


#37 Mr_docfish

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 09:28 AM

QUOTE (bigjohnnofish @ Jan 22 2011, 12:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
..... ammonia damages your fish...... as does carbon monoxide your lungs......


Hey Johno - just a minor technical hitch..... nitrite acts like carbon monoxide (causes haemoglobinaemia).... ammonia damages the gills and internal organs.... but you are right - ammonia is the #1 killer of aquarium fish (nitrite is a close second) often people dont realise it, but 90% of issues including whitespot can be traced back to water quality issues relating to ammonia and nitrite.

#38 gibbs

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 10:20 AM

QUOTE (Barf @ Jan 22 2011, 07:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey Gibbs was that lightly or highly rolleyes.gif



Lightly laugh.gif

Lightly stocked

#39 nvrenuf

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 01:10 PM

Guy I just want to clarify something as i am very confused .

I thought It was nitrate I needed to show filters are working,

how ever just coming from another lfs, got my water tested, he was telling me it is nitrite i need.

even after googleing all the diagrams im confused, and sorry to ask just a simple and dumb ass question please forgive me.

a lot of the diagram i find dont show filters and shows plants so i get confused,

I just want a simple explanation on how it works please the cycle, from fish to water to food to filter etc


So basically From ammonia goes to nitrite then goes to nitrate which isnt harmful under 100ppm ?

At the moment it appears my

ammonia has come down to 0.25
nitrite is 5
nitrate is 20ppm


guy at shop reakons its all fine and shoudl settle in the next two weeks ?

but i'm worried ?

Edited by nvrenuf, 22 January 2011 - 01:25 PM.


#40 gibbs

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 01:20 PM

Whatever LFS you are going to, i suggest stop going there. They are giving you the wrong info unless you are not understanding them properly.

Ammonia = Bad
Nitrite = Bad
Nitrate = Good

Fish natural produce ammonia through there poo and body. A brand new filter will not do anything with the ammonia until it grows a bacteria colony that will convert the ammonia (bad) into Nitrite (bad). Now that is sorted a second bacteria will grow that turns nitrite (still bad) into nitrate (good at low levels). That is the nitrogen cycle in a nut shell.

What you have to do is get rid of your ammonia which means removing a lot of fish from that tank or increase your filtration, maybe take Mr_Docfish's advice and get some sludge from a mature filter.


Edit: Your nitrite has jumped up which is a good sign, getting some sludge will help hurry the process along which is pretty important at this stage. Nitrite at that sort of level will start killing fish or effect there health.

Edited by gibbs, 22 January 2011 - 01:23 PM.





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