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My Girlfriends Tank Must Be Overstocked


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#21 sandgroper

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 11:25 PM

Over stocked tanks need more bio-media for the bacteria to colonize and you need to do 50% weekly water changes. Clear water doesn't mean good water, to keep the water fresh you need to change the appropiate % of water to the bioload mass (no of fish, amount of food fed) cheers steve p.s over stocked tanks require more maintenance.

#22 Neakit

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 05:35 PM

throw another filter in there. Just refrain from putting more fish in.

#23 Barf

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 05:57 PM

try adding your fish etc. to this calculator and see what you come up with wink.gif

http://www.aqadvisor...LengthUnit=inch

#24 Cabo5ag3

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 06:21 PM

I'm trying that Calculator now smile.gif cheers!

Ok guys I have an idea, seeing as I'll have a 100L tank spare on Thursday, my little brother won't like it, but who cares haha!

I'm considering moving some of the fish from my girlfriends tank into that. Out of the fish I have what would be the best group of fish to move? The logical options and the ones she will probably agree with are 4 Silver Dollars (not the biggest ones, as these were hers originally and she's too attached to them) or the 6 Angels? Would that be too small for them even with decent filtration? It's just until they get bigger, I could probably add the silver dollars to my Oscar Tank, not sure about the angels though? And how would Silver Dollars do in a group of 4?

#25 Cabo5ag3

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 06:42 PM

Just used the calculator and I can't believe it, it reckons the tank is 201% overstocked (not counting the odessas) ohmy.gif I told my girlfriend and her jaw dropped to the floor LOL, she doesn't sound too happy about moving fish either, she's so difficult lol, I'll work her around!

Here was the full report:

Warning: Silver Dollar will likely to fin nip Angelfish. (ironically, the only fin nip each other, which I still don't know why!)
Note: Clown Loach may pretend to be dead at times.
Note: Bristlenose Pleco needs driftwood.
Note: Red Tailed Black Shark may jump - lids are recommended.

Recommended temperature range: 24 - 26 C.
Recommended pH range: 6 - 7.8.
Recommended hardness range: 5 - 15 dH.


Warning: You NEED to add more aquarium filtration capacity!!!

Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is 17%.
Recommended water change schedule: 67% per week. (You might want to split this water change schedule to two separate 42% per week)
Your aquarium stocking level is 201%.
Your tank is seriously overstocked. Unless this setup is temporary, you should consider a larger tank. [Generate Image]

#26 theonetruepath

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 07:25 PM

You don't need a calculator to know you're way over.

Guestimating sizes from your photos:
4 Silver dollars at 14cm = 56cm
2 SD at 10cm = 20cm
2 SD at 4cm = 8cm
SD total 84cm
SD forecast adult size 120 to 140cm

Just the Silver Dollars take you over 80cm at current size, which is your limit with that tank.

#27 Cabo5ag3

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 07:44 PM

The silver dollars are no where near 14cm dude, the biggest one is like 7cm - 8cm MAX

I know it's over stocked, hence why I'm asking what fish to move, how many of them to move, and why my silver dollars are attacking each other

#28 crash812

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 08:34 PM

QUOTE (theonetruepath @ May 9 2011, 07:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You don't need a calculator to know you're way over.

Guestimating sizes from your photos:
4 Silver dollars at 14cm = 56cm
2 SD at 10cm = 20cm
2 SD at 4cm = 8cm
SD total 84cm
SD forecast adult size 120 to 140cm

Just the Silver Dollars take you over 80cm at current size, which is your limit with that tank.



I can see what theonetruepath is saying.

the calculation theonetruepath used was on the size your fish and the expected tank space that they need.

I also tried the calculator but apparently when in breeding my pear gourami and single blue ram will be too agressive to my discuss. It's a good tool but listen to theonetrupath aswell. Old and new don't always agree and theone's way of calculating is an old way (I trust the old and original ways myself, thanks onetrue).

I have just started back into discus after having bred them 10 years ago and nowdays the way things have changed I know nothing. Take all the advice you can get and then use it. You'll work it all out

Edited by crash812, 09 May 2011 - 08:37 PM.


#29 Cabo5ag3

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 09:55 PM

Well the plan is to move 4 of the smaller silver dollars to another tank and possibly remove the barb odessa's, then up the filtration

#30 Neakit

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 10:19 PM

hows bout up the filtration first

#31 Cabo5ag3

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 10:37 PM

It's using the stock filter in the tank (just a Blueplanet one) Plus a Eheim Pickup 2010 I believe

#32 dazzabozza

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 10:45 PM

You say you have to clean the tank regulary? Describe what steps you take.

Daz

#33 Cabo5ag3

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 10:48 PM

Once a week but occasional can be left a little longer, 30% water change w/ gravel vac and the Ehiem filter sponges are lightly rinsed out in the removed tank water

#34 dazzabozza

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 10:58 PM

How about the built-in top filter? Does the flow rate drop over time? I had a Blue Planet tank in the past and flow was always an issue. Are you using the media that came with the filter?

I'd half either the amount or frequency that you feed up until you lower the number of fish or get another filter established in the tank.

How's the water temp been lately?


Daz

#35 sandgroper

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 11:44 PM

You have got 2 options, 1 get rid of some fish or 2 get a bigger tank and more filtration. I'd go with 2.

#36 Cabo5ag3

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 05:12 AM

I'm not sure about the filter rate dropping or anything, and the temps always perfect in the tank

sandgroper (lol) love to get a bigger tank mate, but not an option at the moment, so I'm gonna remove half of the silver dollars and possibly the barb odessas and add more filtration

#37 Juls

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 10:42 PM

QUOTE (theonetruepath @ May 8 2011, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Aim at 1cm per 2 litres, ie max 80cm of fish. Any more and you have to change water so often to keep them healthy it's just not worth it.


So he can keep 20 2cm neon tetras, or 2 20cm oscars and they will have the same bioload.....
Or 40 1cm shrimp or 1 40cm saratoga......!! ?!?

You can quickly see that any cm, inch, metre ect rule per litre/gallon ect is totally and utterly misguided and completely incorrect information. In no physical way is any such rule or information useful, it does not and can not work as a broadly used term.

Such made up falacys simply confuse and misguide those that don't understand the biology of there own fish tank, And lead them to unknowingly make poor decisions.

These ideas would only ever ever work if we had a separate cm/liter rule for every single possible living organism implated in a fish tank.

The biomass of a aquatic animal is 3 dimensional it's not simply the length of the fish!! Let alone bioload which adds several extra unmeasured dimensions on it's own!

Biomass is what must be considered, (before taking into consideration potential bioload) and on a basis of the potential biomass of all the fish your keeping in that tank it is way way way overstocked.

Right now at the sizes those fish are it's borderline ok.

But in the longterm realistically if u want too keep all those fish a 6x2x2 or even alot bigger tank needs to be on your near future shopping list.

While it is NOT true that fish will only grow to the size of the tank, it IS true that a too smaller tank will progressively stunt fish by the water they are living in becoming toxic and damaging their internal organs slowing growth and eventually leading to the fishes demise.

(although if fresh water was passed through the tank all day everyday all the fish would reach there potential size, the fish would keep growing as long as the water quality was 100% and nutritional needs where met.)

The reality is that water quality will soon become a issue, if your saying your getting ammonia spikes then there is a bigger problem brewing or your doing something drastically wrong during or as part of your maintainence.

Even if you increase filtration to counter the ammonia spikes nitrates will then begin to get out of control, once things get past the 50ppm mark long term damage begins to occur to the fish, not quickly but slowly. Once things hit the 100ppm mark it's clear things are out of control. You would begin to suffer loses as you approached 200ppm or long before. Not necessarily from the nitrates themselves or if not then certainly the effect they have on total dissolved solids and conductivity as both would begin to climb to levels which would be outside the reasonable range the fish could handle for any reasonable period of time.

If your partner loves her fish then she needs to learn to understand what the fish are doing to the water, and what she is doing to them allowing them to live in such conditions. If she loves them so much she will either move on all the fish that will outgrow the tank or start saving for a new home for them of at least 600L but also get your own test kits (they are $40 for gods sake hardly expensive) and monitor water conditions and try to keep the water in a condition she herself would be happy to live in.

Ammonia 0. Nitrite 0. Nitrates preferably under 5-10ppm but 20 is ok if 50-70% water changes are made when nitrates start getting to 40ppm or above. (or daily 20% changes till you reach 5ppm the day after the last change.)

Ph must be suitable for the fish your keeping (around 7-7.5 should be suitable for most) watch your ph as nitrates rise as rapid ph crashes can occur stressing or killing your fish.

Since the tank has no plants other readings are not as important.

Your clown loaches have the largest potential size of all the fish in that tank. In all honesty a single fully grown clown loach would exceed what would be the max size fish you could keep in that tank. Sadly clown loaches are almost always live caught, it is a testiment to how tough these guys are as to how long they survive at the hands of unknowing aquarium keepers.

The number one cause of clownloach death in aquariums would be long term nitrogen poisoning. In my experience kept in good conditions clown loaches are virtually indestructible.

Juls.

Edited by Juls, 11 May 2011 - 08:03 AM.





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