Thanks
Vincent
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Blue marron...
Started by mtchye, Nov 26 2003 04:14 PM
25 replies to this topic
#1
mtchye
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- Validating Joined: 07-September 02
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Location: Willetton
Posted 26 November 2003 - 04:14 PM
We recently acquired a trio of blue marron (not yabbies) and are wondering if anyone has any tips on the upkeep and breeding of these critters?
Thanks
Vincent
Thanks
Vincent
#2
bigfish
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- Forum Member Joined: 30-August 03
Posted 26 November 2003 - 04:20 PM
i have kept these litter succers but havn't growen to full size. feed mine peas and froren gambusia which i caught myself.
keep a tight lid on the tank as iff marron don't like the water they are in they will climb out just to dry out the floor
keep a tight lid on the tank as iff marron don't like the water they are in they will climb out just to dry out the floor
#3
saudukar
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- Forum Member Joined: 10-April 03
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Location: Joondalup, WA
Posted 26 November 2003 - 05:24 PM
Yeah I used to keep them in a trough a fed them chicken pellets until they are big enough to eat.
Biggest one I ever had was called popeye. He only had one eye and grew to be around 2 foot. I didnt have the heart to eat him in the end so he lived out his life in a postfilter water container attched to a rainwater tank. He finally died of a bacterial infection.
They are really tollerant little buggers. But the one thing you have to make sure of is that they can get to the surface but are not able to exit the enclosure you have them in or they will wander around your backyard until they dry out.
Biggest one I ever had was called popeye. He only had one eye and grew to be around 2 foot. I didnt have the heart to eat him in the end so he lived out his life in a postfilter water container attched to a rainwater tank. He finally died of a bacterial infection.
They are really tollerant little buggers. But the one thing you have to make sure of is that they can get to the surface but are not able to exit the enclosure you have them in or they will wander around your backyard until they dry out.
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#4
mtchye
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- Validating Joined: 07-September 02
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Location: Willetton
Posted 26 November 2003 - 06:12 PM
hi guys
thanks for info... so what I am getting is that these guys need access to air to survive? They are in a little standard two footer at the moment so I'm not sure how accessible the surface of the water is..
Keep the advice coming, and no, I dont think we will eat these either
thanks for info... so what I am getting is that these guys need access to air to survive? They are in a little standard two footer at the moment so I'm not sure how accessible the surface of the water is..
Keep the advice coming, and no, I dont think we will eat these either
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#5
bigfish
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- Forum Member Joined: 30-August 03
Posted 26 November 2003 - 06:26 PM
they just need an air filter and they will be fine
it's not a good idea to feed them chicken pellets i have been told that this can bloat them!
it's not a good idea to feed them chicken pellets i have been told that this can bloat them!
#6
calvus75
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- Forum Member Joined: 17-August 02
Posted 26 November 2003 - 06:35 PM
G'day Vince,
I'm fairly certain that the blue strain is just a line bred mutation of the common WA Cherax sp. The 2 footer isn't really appropriate for any great length of time and you'll probably find that they prefer a more solitary existence and / or more space (at least until you can get them up to breeding size / age - not for a while yet by the sounds of things). Fisheries WA site is probably a good place to start your research suggested keywords: Cherax (Genus), decapods (broad taxanomic classification). Ref: Williams, W. (1980). Australian freshwater life 2nd ed. Macmillan Pty. Ltd.: Melbourne.
Also search the life sciences data bases for the author Horwitz, P - the man on freshwater crayfish in WA (fairly certain he has developed an id guide for fisheries WA, which may be of assistance also).
hth
p
I'm fairly certain that the blue strain is just a line bred mutation of the common WA Cherax sp. The 2 footer isn't really appropriate for any great length of time and you'll probably find that they prefer a more solitary existence and / or more space (at least until you can get them up to breeding size / age - not for a while yet by the sounds of things). Fisheries WA site is probably a good place to start your research suggested keywords: Cherax (Genus), decapods (broad taxanomic classification). Ref: Williams, W. (1980). Australian freshwater life 2nd ed. Macmillan Pty. Ltd.: Melbourne.
Also search the life sciences data bases for the author Horwitz, P - the man on freshwater crayfish in WA (fairly certain he has developed an id guide for fisheries WA, which may be of assistance also).
hth
p
#7
urodacus
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- Forum Member Joined: 10-February 03
Posted 26 November 2003 - 08:13 PM
I had koonaks (spelling?) for years that i was breeding. Fed them mainly on chook laying pellets and bits of ox heart. Not too much meat though or they'll pollute the water pretty quickly. They love earth worms too, even the tiny ones would wrestle big worms
Cheers
Jordan
Cheers
Jordan
#8
scroogy1
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- Forum Member Joined: 21-August 02
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Location: Tapping
Posted 27 November 2003 - 08:13 AM
Hey Vincent
They are the same as normal marron feed them on potato and carrot as when it goes off it will float to the top of the tank for easy removal. Just remember that they are scavangers and prefer rotting or decaying matter.
Jason
They are the same as normal marron feed them on potato and carrot as when it goes off it will float to the top of the tank for easy removal. Just remember that they are scavangers and prefer rotting or decaying matter.
Jason
#9
saudukar
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- Forum Member Joined: 10-April 03
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Location: Joondalup, WA
Posted 28 November 2003 - 12:20 AM
Koonaks are not marron. Marron are a forgein freshwater crayfish to Western Australian waters.
Koonaks are brown and a hell of alot smaller and are native. Marron should be blue to some extent but bad water sometimes makes them browny/washed out.
We used to have Dams full of them out in the hills and in Mundajong. You used to feed them every couple of days with meat scraps and chook pellets.
They grow big and strong on meat and chook pellets.
Koonaks are brown and a hell of alot smaller and are native. Marron should be blue to some extent but bad water sometimes makes them browny/washed out.
We used to have Dams full of them out in the hills and in Mundajong. You used to feed them every couple of days with meat scraps and chook pellets.
They grow big and strong on meat and chook pellets.
#10
Dawson83
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- Forum Member Joined: 25-January 03
Posted 28 November 2003 - 01:03 AM
I don't mean to be picky, but Marron are 100% native to South-West parts of WA. Koonacs are also native, as are Gilgies. Yabbies and Red-Claws are not! (Eastern States and Queensland respectively)
Marron are usually a dark black/brown, and someone fluked a few blue marron years ago and has kept breeding them since. They are not usually blue (I've never caught a blue one in the wild) and in even the cleanest, healthiest water they will be black/brown. Note that you can also get Blue Yabbies. Marron are also the 2nd or 3rd biggest freshwater crayfish in the world.
Cheers
Aaron
Marron are usually a dark black/brown, and someone fluked a few blue marron years ago and has kept breeding them since. They are not usually blue (I've never caught a blue one in the wild) and in even the cleanest, healthiest water they will be black/brown. Note that you can also get Blue Yabbies. Marron are also the 2nd or 3rd biggest freshwater crayfish in the world.
Cheers
Aaron
#11
EvilPasta
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- Forum Member Joined: 20-November 03
Posted 28 November 2003 - 05:43 PM
As long as the water's oxygenated enough they don't need
direct access to the surface of the water. If I remember
right they breed in summer, so if they're big enough, raising
the temp a couple of degrees can induce spawning
Good luck...
direct access to the surface of the water. If I remember
right they breed in summer, so if they're big enough, raising
the temp a couple of degrees can induce spawning
Good luck...
#12
mtchye
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- Validating Joined: 07-September 02
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Location: Willetton
Posted 28 November 2003 - 06:04 PM
Thanks for the info guys, one tried an escaping act yesterday.. seems like you really have to lock them down
I know they are in too small a tank - soon they will be in much larger quarters..
I know they are in too small a tank - soon they will be in much larger quarters..
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#13
Barca888
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- Forum Member Joined: 31-October 03
Posted 29 November 2003 - 08:53 AM
I recall seeing a smallish pond a few years ago with a few marron in it. It was shallow and the marron were all hiding under the rock. No filtration and they could all easily climb to freedom.
#14
me
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- Forum Member Joined: 24-August 02
Posted 30 November 2003 - 12:09 AM
just wondering vincent,
how much did you pay for them because i saw them at about 45cm long for $100 at vebas.
Then i went to an asian seafood place and they had them for $30 at the same size both where marron.
I asked about them and both got them from the same source.
how large are yours?
how much did you pay for them because i saw them at about 45cm long for $100 at vebas.
Then i went to an asian seafood place and they had them for $30 at the same size both where marron.
I asked about them and both got them from the same source.
how large are yours?
#15
alan
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- Forum Member Joined: 03-August 03
Posted 01 December 2003 - 03:26 AM
me, so where did this asian place aquire their marron. Also, are you sure that they are BLUE marron. I don't think they would be eating blue marron. They usually use the brown marron that are farmed locally for food.
Blue marron females usually have their first spawn when they are about 20cm long. This is easily done in a pond but difficult to achieve successfully in a small aquarium.
Blue marron females usually have their first spawn when they are about 20cm long. This is easily done in a pond but difficult to achieve successfully in a small aquarium.
#16
Guest_sajica_*
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Posted 01 December 2003 - 03:36 PM
sorry guys i'm gonna have to clear up a few facts on this thread ok.
Marron are Cherax tenuimanus and are native to WA, they are extremely intolerant to high water temps and succesptible to water with low oxygen levels (dissolved oxygen) I they're tolerant up to 25 degrees and will die at 31 degrees optimum temperature is 21-25 degrees
I'm not sure when they breed (maybe september) but they breed once a year and have a brood size of 25-1000 eggs per spawn.
Blue marron are a naturally occuring "morph" of our standard black marron, and they were sold to us originally because the food market won't accept a blue marron, as a food product. Marron have also been discovered as red and as white specimens, but so far blue marron have been the easyist to breed, because the other 2 colours have been hard to find/ obtain specimens.
Also to give your marron a hiding place, use some shade cloth, and they'll crawl and hide in it. If your gonna try to breed the marron you'll probably want to put them in a pond, but you'll need to make some "hides" which is a basically a long strip of shade cloth tied to a rock to weigh it down, and a float so you know where the hide is and where to pull it up. If your interested I can show you how to make one during the holidays, it's kinda fun, well it was last week when i went up to a farm. All up a hide costs less then $1 in material, that is given though that they bought a whole roll of shade cloth hides though are what you use when stocking crays into ponds
Feeding-
Marron Pellets, they have a formulated diet for a reason, not sure of the costs and I don't know any aquarium stores that sell it but you could always buy a 10kg bag, lol
Glen Forrest Stock Feeds- Marron Pellet seems to be really popular, and it's West Australian
I'm not sure as alternative diets but I was playing with yabbies for a week for a feed trial and they ate apple, lemon peel and onions. My apple yabby ate from my hand, which was kinda cool
hope some of that info wasn't too boring I've been studying freshwater crayfish farming for nearly a term now, lol so that might explain my thread
Marron are Cherax tenuimanus and are native to WA, they are extremely intolerant to high water temps and succesptible to water with low oxygen levels (dissolved oxygen) I they're tolerant up to 25 degrees and will die at 31 degrees optimum temperature is 21-25 degrees
I'm not sure when they breed (maybe september) but they breed once a year and have a brood size of 25-1000 eggs per spawn.
Blue marron are a naturally occuring "morph" of our standard black marron, and they were sold to us originally because the food market won't accept a blue marron, as a food product. Marron have also been discovered as red and as white specimens, but so far blue marron have been the easyist to breed, because the other 2 colours have been hard to find/ obtain specimens.
Also to give your marron a hiding place, use some shade cloth, and they'll crawl and hide in it. If your gonna try to breed the marron you'll probably want to put them in a pond, but you'll need to make some "hides" which is a basically a long strip of shade cloth tied to a rock to weigh it down, and a float so you know where the hide is and where to pull it up. If your interested I can show you how to make one during the holidays, it's kinda fun, well it was last week when i went up to a farm. All up a hide costs less then $1 in material, that is given though that they bought a whole roll of shade cloth
hides though are what you use when stocking crays into pondsFeeding-
Marron Pellets, they have a formulated diet for a reason, not sure of the costs and I don't know any aquarium stores that sell it but you could always buy a 10kg bag, lol
Glen Forrest Stock Feeds- Marron Pellet seems to be really popular, and it's West Australian
I'm not sure as alternative diets but I was playing with yabbies for a week for a feed trial and they ate apple, lemon peel and onions. My apple yabby ate from my hand, which was kinda cool
hope some of that info wasn't too boring
I've been studying freshwater crayfish farming for nearly a term now, lol so that might explain my thread
#17
mtchye
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Location: Willetton
Posted 01 December 2003 - 03:44 PM
Hi Chris,
I found your information very interesting and helpful! I did want to put some in a pond, but was put off by all the stories of them 'walking' off when water conditions were not optimal. I would try to keep them optimal of course, but am afraid of times in summer when it will be hard to keep the temperature down and the DO levels high.
THese marron hides sound neat - and hopefully will give them some shelter and discourage them from climbing out of the pond. HOwever I want to keep some fish in this pond (maybe goldfish/white clouds the usual stuff) so again am afraid that the marron will either eat the fish or get eaten at moulting periods...
What do you think about that?
I found your information very interesting and helpful! I did want to put some in a pond, but was put off by all the stories of them 'walking' off when water conditions were not optimal. I would try to keep them optimal of course, but am afraid of times in summer when it will be hard to keep the temperature down and the DO levels high.
THese marron hides sound neat - and hopefully will give them some shelter and discourage them from climbing out of the pond. HOwever I want to keep some fish in this pond (maybe goldfish/white clouds the usual stuff) so again am afraid that the marron will either eat the fish or get eaten at moulting periods...
What do you think about that?
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#18
Adam Maskew
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- Forum Member Joined: 18-April 03
Posted 01 December 2003 - 04:37 PM
Sajica,
I think you may need to talk to a few people in the industry regarding temperature tolerance of marron. They do not die at 31oC. They can actually tolerate that temperature for a number of months. Thats why there are commercial farms as far north as North Hampton and a lot of people having a real go between Perth and Geraldton. We even have plantations with them up here in Carnarvon. I've even talked to a guy who took them up to Port Hedland.
the hotest single temperature I ever recorded in a marron pond was 32.8 oC in Summer, at a farm near Jurien Bay. The reason that they get away with this is that they maintain good aeration and water quality and don't stress their crayfish. Sure its at their upper end of tolerance but their LD50 is around 35 oC
Other than that your information is reasonably correct. We used to use a 6mm mesh, we found that the shade cloth collects to much crap. Another thing we found that they liked as shelter was something like a low table. It would act as a cave shelter and the molting marron could get up on top of it to moult away from conspecifics.
Adam Edited by: Adam Maskew at: 12/1/03 8:45 am
I think you may need to talk to a few people in the industry regarding temperature tolerance of marron. They do not die at 31oC. They can actually tolerate that temperature for a number of months. Thats why there are commercial farms as far north as North Hampton and a lot of people having a real go between Perth and Geraldton. We even have plantations with them up here in Carnarvon. I've even talked to a guy who took them up to Port Hedland.
the hotest single temperature I ever recorded in a marron pond was 32.8 oC in Summer, at a farm near Jurien Bay. The reason that they get away with this is that they maintain good aeration and water quality and don't stress their crayfish. Sure its at their upper end of tolerance but their LD50 is around 35 oC
Other than that your information is reasonably correct. We used to use a 6mm mesh, we found that the shade cloth collects to much crap. Another thing we found that they liked as shelter was something like a low table. It would act as a cave shelter and the molting marron could get up on top of it to moult away from conspecifics.
Adam Edited by: Adam Maskew at: 12/1/03 8:45 am
#19
Guest_sajica_*
Guest_sajica_*
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Posted 01 December 2003 - 05:20 PM
tanks adam for your insight there. I was refering to information given from notes handed in class, definately at temps above 30 degrees personally i'd be inclined to go redclaw. With these far north farms are we talking about using paddlewheel aerators or uplifts, again this is another factor, depending on who you talk to about these 2 aerators. The information i used was basically notes and handouts given from class, and i'm sure my lectuerer wouldn't say something that wasn't true Theres a nice saying that goes something like this,
"redclaw will tell you when something's wrong, they'll climb out of the pond, marron will just die in the pond"
the material that people use to make hides is personal preference and marron preference, as they're apparently picky with materials and even the colours. (i was up at gingin for the w/e for tafe and some of the hides where made from flyscreen, which is a nightmare for getting stuck in the anoxic mud, not to mention the holes in the screen get clogged with clay.
now vince keeping marron in with fish isn't a new idea, i remember watching landline and reading a few articles years ago about heaps of people growing silver perch and marron (polyculture- culture of more then 2 species in the same tank or pond). Up at gingin 2 of the ponds had pygmy perch swimming around (probably got there from birds) apparently from one sight i red they will eat temnocephala from marron, but i was under the impression only yabbies got temnos, but hey, the pygmey perch eat your mossie larvae, but on another note you could always stock some M.fluviatilis rainbows, though the whole translocation thing, i'd go with the pygmy perch. To aerate the pond I'd use one of these
www.aquaria.com.au//produ...KY-012.jpg
with a few big airstones rigged up along the length of the pond. Also vince watch your hardness of your water (alkalinity- kH) from memory it should be at least 100ppm not sure (i've got teh numbers of 100- 200ppm floating in my head for some reason), i'll find that out if you want crays need that hard water so they can develop harder shells.
Theres a nice saying that goes something like this,"redclaw will tell you when something's wrong, they'll climb out of the pond, marron will just die in the pond"
the material that people use to make hides is personal preference and marron preference, as they're apparently picky with materials and even the colours. (i was up at gingin for the w/e for tafe and some of the hides where made from flyscreen, which is a nightmare for getting stuck in the anoxic mud, not to mention the holes in the screen get clogged with clay.
now vince keeping marron in with fish isn't a new idea, i remember watching landline and reading a few articles years ago about heaps of people growing silver perch and marron (polyculture- culture of more then 2 species in the same tank or pond). Up at gingin 2 of the ponds had pygmy perch swimming around (probably got there from birds) apparently from one sight i red they will eat temnocephala from marron, but i was under the impression only yabbies got temnos, but hey, the pygmey perch eat your mossie larvae, but on another note you could always stock some M.fluviatilis rainbows, though the whole translocation thing, i'd go with the pygmy perch. To aerate the pond I'd use one of these
www.aquaria.com.au//produ...KY-012.jpg
with a few big airstones rigged up along the length of the pond. Also vince watch your hardness of your water (alkalinity- kH) from memory it should be at least 100ppm not sure (i've got teh numbers of 100- 200ppm floating in my head for some reason), i'll find that out if you want crays need that hard water so they can develop harder shells.
#20
Adam Maskew
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- Forum Member Joined: 18-April 03
Posted 01 December 2003 - 11:25 PM
The type of aeration doesn't really enter into the issue as its pond water temperature. But I've worked with farms that have used both methods. I must admit I'm not a fan of paddlewheels in ponds smaller than 2,500m2 or deeper than about 1.5m. Most of the marron ponds I have worked with don't meet these parameters, there mostly smaller (1000m2) or deeper (2m), particularly up north. Airlifts are a great method of keeping your ponds cool as they can be used to just aerate the cooler, deeper water by maintaining a stratification.
I've always found that marron will get up and leave when the conditions aren't to their liking. They particularly move when the DO levels are low. I guess thats why the industry has to fight the myth of marron walking out of farm dams...
Polyculture is possible and does increase your return. However you have to have a rediculously low number of predators 10-20 trout, <50 silvers in a 1000m2 pond, or you use a species like Pygmy Perch, galaxids that want predate on the marron, particularly when they moult.
Also on the point of calcium for their shells, they get enough from the commercial diets. theres not many farmers liming their ponds these days and there are a lot using the soft acidic waters of the south west, thats why the diets have calcium.
Adam Edited by: Adam Maskew at: 12/1/03 3:27 pm
I've always found that marron will get up and leave when the conditions aren't to their liking. They particularly move when the DO levels are low. I guess thats why the industry has to fight the myth of marron walking out of farm dams...
Polyculture is possible and does increase your return. However you have to have a rediculously low number of predators 10-20 trout, <50 silvers in a 1000m2 pond, or you use a species like Pygmy Perch, galaxids that want predate on the marron, particularly when they moult.
Also on the point of calcium for their shells, they get enough from the commercial diets. theres not many farmers liming their ponds these days and there are a lot using the soft acidic waters of the south west, thats why the diets have calcium.
Adam Edited by: Adam Maskew at: 12/1/03 3:27 pm
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