Schapel Corby Innocent ?

OK, I am convinced....drug dealers are awesome and just trying to make a living, apparently just like the guy working in your local bar.

 

 

Serious problem....We have been doing the prohibition thing for near on a century, and a lot of good it has done. How much effect do you think it's had?

 

 

I loathe this type of argument. Just because something has not been eradicated and is difficult - doesn't mean the fight is not worthwhile.

If someone wants to smoke ILEGAL substances , they will ! If they harm themselves because of it "so be it"
If somebody decides that they are going to make a fast dollar by suppliying drugs to my ( AND YOUR) family members . Very often the younger family members , then I do not believe I can forgive them.
The supplier walks away smiling , the suppliers supplier smiles even more.
The VICTIM (and that is what they are) does the suffering . It has the potential to ruin them mentally, physically and financially.
It can tear families apart , young people with no or very low income become addicted and still feel the need to get some money to satisfy their addiction, SOMETIMES that means another crime to satisfy another illegal pastime.
DON'T make excuses for these people's actions, they know what they are doing, they know the consequences, they take the risks!
I agree that the death sentence is a bit harsh . BUT I know that that can be the penalty in certain countries. WORTH THE RISK ?

NO EXCUSES !!!!!!!!!

Oh yes ! Think on as to where the money comes from to police these activities , to pay hospitals (not just for the users but from violence that can surround the suppliers) and of course to help the FAMILY members that are affected.
I believe it's called taxation.

Must go to WORK now to earn a living and PAY my share of the TAXES

I loathe this type of argument or lack thereof, Leigh

 

Add up the bad stuff you blame on illicit drugs and then measure how much better or worse alcohol is in the same terms. What do you come up with?

 

As to this "eradication", some headway might be expected if it is indeed worthwhile. Is it worthwhile? Is there any headway? Where does this road lead and will it ever get there?

 

The Americans have put a good million or two in jail in the name of eradication. Surely a greater waste of life than any drug. This is a reprise of the "we had to destroy the village to save it" argument. Other countries have moved towards legalisation, and the sky has not fallen. Some of them have benefited both by not having to lavish money on the blurred crusade that is prohibition enforcement, and also from taxing the substances .

 

Shep: I don't buy the black and white argument, is all. I don't buy the victim argument. Noone is selling kids heroin. That only happens on A Current Affair. If someone's kids are 30, they can make some of their own decisions. People are no more victims in this than if they took a liking to skydiving.

 

I am not advocating everyone go out and take drugs. They are after all illegal and this would therefore be very naughty. I am saying that their being so illegal is futile and probably not a good idea. I am also suggesting that the boundary of legal and illegal seems a bit arbitrary and our working definitions of The Great Satan drugs is a bit flawed.

The kids you see wandering the streets "off their face" are certainly not adults?
My kids will be my kids until I die . What happens to them or affects them (and my grandchildren) will Always have a long reaching affect into my family.
Yes I care ! Yes I will protect them from anything or anybody who could hurt them .
That even meant alcohol when they were younger.
wrong is wrong ! But there is always someone who is prepared to just let it happen and sometimes even excuse it.
I also believe that whatever discussion gets started on here , certain individuals will take a stance that is opposite to everyone else ,
KEEPS IT GOING THOUGH EH !

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And that's why I don't drink ^

How can they label one of the most useful plants that god ever put on his great, GREEN earth as drugs???

I hear stories of people crying oh drugs wrecked my life wah wah.

I was an alcoholic for a while morning, noon and night, then a drug addict for a few years. Never lost my job, killed anyone, raped anyone or stole anything. I have everything I want and worked hard for it. Blame yourself if your life is crap, you are the one that let it get to that stage.

As for smuggling dope in to Bali, surely no one could be that stupid!!

All of this 'pot wrecked my friends life' crap is a complete joke.
They either sprayed the old mortene on their stash or they weren't to bright to start with..

One of the reasons I stopped smoking pot about...... I saw the local supplier get a shit batch and decided to spray it with hairspray.. That was it for me.
All the hydro crap is also CRAP.

Natural is the best way, much better than booze.

All of this 'pot wrecked my friends life' crap is a complete joke.
They either sprayed the old mortene on their stash or they weren't to bright to start with..

Yep and thats what a lot of people I have known have said for years. Until they become such fruit cakes you cant have a conversation with them. It never starts off as a problem but it often becomes one. 10 - 20 years later and they are too rooted to even see that they cocked up.
just my experience not speaking generally or idealistically.

Hydro is crap because 98% of growers don't know what on earth they are doing.. they seemingly only do it for a quick buck.
But yes, the saying does go 'don't panic, it's organic'.
Drugs work differently with different people Paul, I'll leave it at that.

True enough.

kids dont even smoke weed anymore

Thats what all the "Old skool" people do.. Its more the "cool" drugs these days

its all about the crack and the genitals these confused days

Don't blame the drug suppliers, if no one bought any they would be out of a job. If your dumb ,stupid, brain dead kids who can't think for themselves take drugs, then you raised them up to be morons. So the parents have to share some of the blame with the kids, no one else.

the groper beat me to it.... exactly what im gonna say....

 

if your , for example making a xxx pill (we'll call it xxx) and no-one buys it - what happens ??? you go out of business as far as a pill maker goes....

 

same with weed... if no-one buys it than your gonna be really wasted and broke after all the food you bought !!!!

 

no-one physically addicts other people to drugs... people do it on their own....

 

and shep i fully understand your stance with your kids and drug dealers... i am the same....just the only problem i see is if your kids want to buy drugs they will find someone to sell them to them... you can take out the local dealer... and the ones up the road... but you cant take out all of them no matter how much you want to.... so if one part of the problem is unstoppable... then you attack the other part which is your kids... you educate them to the best of your ability - and yes maybe take them to hospitalised drug addicts and even show them rehab... and the looneys it houses.... and show them burnt out street kids and the glue sniffers etc etc... until such time your happy your kids wont do drugs.... its your responsibilty to educate your kids enough to give them a more informed choice whether or not they do drugs....

 

i chose not to smoke or do drugs at high school.... and believe me there were plenty at our high school.... speed/go-ee was all the rage... and trips were big too as weed and alcohol were also... smoking was pretty common but it was about the time the anti smoking campainge really kicked it... sniffing halucinigens was around too....

 

there is a big word here... called  "CHOICE"  and we all have it... so yes i feel sorry for some addicts but primarily its their own fault....  

Pick your poison, pay your tab. Bad is bad, sober or intoxicated. Failure is failure, regardless of the excuse that "caused" it.

 

My main argument against the war on drugs, is that usage (or abuse) is generally done in the shadows, so potential issues related to consumption (cause or consequence) are not identified until it reaches a serious level. Secrecy to avoid legal problems or social prejudices isolates those who would alternatively benefit from earlier intervention in an open-minded society (and those who consume responsibly would not be demonised by association for the sins and excesses of the others).

 

A user's life might not be ruined directly by the substance, but instead the social consequence associated with it (health is another story). Losing a job for failing a drug test can cause a ripple effect - no income, home foreclosed, wife left. Jail time can lead to PTSD, or friends and skills that can turn an average citizen that might be "going though a phase" into a career criminal. 

 

Ask yourself, if the laws for pot and alcohol were reversed, would you smoke the odd joint and be comfortable with someone being locked up or losing their job for carrying a six pack or selling a carton? Even if beer was proven to have medicinal value?

 

As for health problems - this is a factor, and more so for those who lack the discipline to know and respect their limits, regardless of legality.

 

The black market allows violence to become a business strategy, and allows an inferior, potentially more lethal product to generate a profit. Many dealers don't care for QA, and this results in harmful additives. Lack of alternative suppliers is common where a dealer's self preservation relies on ultra-cautious promotion of their product and selection of clientele, so a user buys what they can get regardless of pedigree.

 

Alternatively, an open market grants the ability to set quality standards, produces tax revenue to offset the detrimental effects of abuse, grants the consumer a choice to purchase a safer product, and the ability to consume responsibly without fear of social or judicial consequences. The product can be packaged to inform the consumer of the negative aspects relating to misuse, and the potency of the product (so as to regulate their use accordingly). 

 

IMHO, the most detrimental effect of drug use is the personal and familial consequence of the legal and social response to being caught. Second is the tangential financing of criminal organisations. Third is health. Prohibition facilitates an increased severity of all three.

 

Edited by smirq, 26 January 2025 - 02:08 AM.

bravo smirq cant find the actual quote but don dunstan [sth aussie premier ] said in the late 70;s   The time for change is now, the laws are doing more harm than the drug. he was referring to pot. the laws continue to alienate and harm people and are a massive gift to organised crime. unfortunately the general community seems to need a whipping boy and as were not allowed to hate on ethnic/race or religious grounds, alternative drug users have become the legitimate target in our selfish, shallow minded society.

Glad to see someone else likes bill hicks.