40 replies to this topic

[mattrox]

I am doing research on that as Mwanza itself is a town and the gulf is big and I don't know which Islands are in mwanza gulf compared to Speke Gulf.

There seems to be some inconsisency in the photos on the net but I'll be back.

[Buccal]

That's just the problem.
Using googled pics to verify has the same problem itself, they are to not reliable.
In fact cross referencing pics in books leaves me head scratching also.

[mattrox]

I try to go more by physical description that photos. camera angles and light etc....

I think Bigsky Cichlids Mwanza Red fits the description best..... more research required.

I found the other 3 I could tell apart using the descriptions in the book.

I have Dr Seehausen's book on order.......

[mattrox]

That's just the problem.
Using googled pics to verify has the same problem itself, they are to not reliable.
In fact cross referencing pics in books leaves me head scratching also.

Doing more research on this.... Females from Mwanza Gulf populations are slightly more brown than Spoke Gulf. There are 20 different Mwanza Gulf variants. Igombe and Makobe are not in Mwanza Gulf, Hippo Island is.

[mattrox]

Hippo Island, Anchor Island, Luanso Island and Python Island are all in Mwanza Gulf.

And I found this.
http://hillcountryci..... nyererei.pdf

[Buccal]

So Mwanza variant is a broad specification.
So it's likely the ones you have is a good possibility of being Mwanza if they are not crosses.

[mattrox]

If what I have is different to the existing strains and more like "Mwanza Red " hen I'd consider it a different variant. However it is a bad location name...... I'll find out more. I have also noticed that Bigsky Cichlid's photo shows a different fish to other "Mwanza" fish....

Google maps is brilliant..... These islands are so small only the name appears on the map. It is how I worked out Chillingly was a separate Lake and prompted me to email Ad.....

[mattrox]

Here is my theory, this is the proper full scientific name of P. nyererei:
Pundamilia nyererei (Witte-Maas & Witte, 1985) Mwanza Gulf, Tanzania, Lake Victoria

I guess that is because the "type" fish was taken from Mwanza gulf.

I suspect the "Mwanza Red" and "Mwanza Gulf" are being propogated by opportunisitic exporters passing of fish from various locations as a new fish.

This fish lives in rock habitat, not open gulf waters. If taken from such a habitiat the name should have "Rocks", "Reef", "Island" or "Point" in the location name as we have become familiar with the Malawis taken from rocky regions.

I am going to find out more, but there are 11 known (actual physical locations) that P. nyererei have been collected from.
http://www.cichlid-f..._rutiisland.php


http://cichlidnews.c...t/whatsnew.html
On this page there is a photo of what looks like and "Anchor Island" morph but the description fits this fish better.

Another Mwanza Red
http://www.african-c...rereiMwanza.htm

And this is what Bigsky Cichlids is selling as Mwanza Red
http://www.bigskycic...erei_mwanza.htm


Here are different fish that has "Mwanza Gulf"



I'll be back!

[mattrox]

I am uploading the known collection points in Speke Gulf and Mwanza Gulf for reference. Paint skills are poor...

Attached Files

•  Speke_Gulf.JPG   134.49KB   10 downloads
•  Mwanza_Gulf.jpg   159.02KB   6 downloads

Edited by mattrox, 05 December 2012 - 09:05 AM.

[mattrox]

In 2007, some collectors were working in northern Lake Tanganyika and made a trip north to the Mwanza Gulf of Lake Victoria. They caught a very limited number of Victorian cichlids using hook and line, and they were exported to the US by Laif Demason of Old World Exotics. They were sold as Pundamilia nyererei "Mwanza Gulf" which is obviously a rather generic location. One particular hobbyist in California added the name "red" and called them "red Mwanza" so those that bought from him continued the use of that name (although "red" is a rather redundant additional description for any nyererei.) The "What's New..." in Cichlid News is by Laif Demason. How this 2007 wild caught Victorian progeny made it's way from the US to Australia (if it indeed actually did) is anyone's guess.

The nyererei shown in the http://www.african-cichlid.com link are my fish that I bought from this hobbyist in California.

Kevin

So pretty much if the "Mwanza Gulf" do not turn out reasonably similar to this then it is all bullshit.


So we got to the bottom of it.

[mattrox]

I have found out that NSWCS is considering calling what is being sold as "Flameback" Pundamilia nyereri "Australian Flameback" to make a clear distinction between the fish that are of mixed origin and the fish which still have their collection points attached. This is interesting because the "Flameback" is P. nyererei and not strictly a hybrid. It is a popular aquarium fish and with some help maybe the wholesalers (and shops) can adopt this name.... or atleast the FS boards of Aquarium forums.

[mattrox]

To answer the original question:
This fish, the wide bars all the way to the dorsal indicate "Anchor Island" but the blue dorsal indicated "Python Island"


In this fish the dorsal is not blue, but the bars wide:


Given that the fish are sold as the same thing it is safe to assume they are good old Aussie multiple origin "Flamebacks".

[Buccal]

Are these your fish ?
Isn't one a male blue dorsal
Other female goldy brown ?

[mattrox]

No they are Peta's fish from the op. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I wouldn't have expected a female to have that much orange.

[Bowdy]

Posting these of Buccal's P nyererei for matrox to look at.

[Buccal]

Hey Mattrox, what do you think about these, what location would you be thinking ?
You did say you wanted to see what peoples got to.

[mattrox]

Great looking fish. Makes a difference when you get good stock. On phone now, but will have to have a good look on computer later.

Bars maybe not quite wide enough for Anchor Island, need to see profile to double check forehead. Anchor Island doesn't have blue in anal fin usually. But Mwanza Bay does.

Not the light blue dorsal fin and looks like too many bars for typical Python Island and not Makobe straight off the bat, not elongated enough for Ruti Island.
Bar on head not typical of Igombe......

Edited by mattrox, 07 December 2012 - 11:32 AM.

[Buccal]

How rude of me, I forgot to say thanks.
Thanks for that Mr Bowdy, much appreciated.

[mattrox]

I love seeing pics of good quality fish. Want to compare Nkhali? lol

[atep32]

Wow. Long time no read. Lol. Just to clarify, it's the same fish and photos were taken with my iphone. The front third or so of his dorsal is blue. His girlfriend is a golden brown colour. Since the hikari gold and super g may of muddied him (you like that word like it did my poor female electric yellow, I have obviously discontinued use since receiving advice related to this in another question I asked. . Still learning as I go.