88 replies to this topic

[Buccal]

Google this :

Aquariacentral.com if you use garlic read this.

[bigjohnnofish]

you might have to give us a direct link... big website even just viewing as a guest

[Bombshocked]

http://www.aquariace...p/t-222535.html

 

There's The One I Read

[Buccal]

Yes that link is the one.
My computer literacy is poor as I've neglected them nearly all my life.
Also I only have a iPad.
Just got a new top range MacBook laptop though, so when I get the hang of it,,,, I won't be so primitive. Lol
The point of that link was I would think it would effect freshwater fish also,,,, as a few varieties of pelletized fish foods have garlic in it,,,, even reeking of it.

It causes internal lesions to the fishes organs.
And no documentation for scientific experimentation on record to proving it boosts fishes immune systems like the fish food claim.
It's like a wives tail belief that has turned into demand, and manufacturers are adding it for improved marketing,,,,,

Edited by Buccal, 18 August 2013 - 08:39 AM.

[Ronny]

In high amounts, yes it can be harmful as can anything in high amounts.

 

An interesting read:

http://www.trjfas.or..._12_03/0311.pdf

 

http://www.newlife.i...y-pablo-tepoot/

 

Also see the refferences for more.

[Anka]

All this talk of garlic and fish is making me hungry

[Buccal]

That's some long information streams there Ronny.
Pablo is a very knowledgable person (the god of spectrum).
I've observed a lot of his presence on the American forums for fish.
He promotes a lot of info in support that directly links to spectrum all the time.
From what I see,,,,, there is a world outside of spectrum.
I use to use spectrum for 5 years solid, and a bucket every week to.

I saw him at logger heads a lot with the strong flower horn fanatics and their feeding/showing techniques in the US.

[Ronny]

It's a lot to digest ( no pun intended ).
I wasn't really trying to push spectrum or anything, Imm more interested in the references for his article.

A few good studies there.

[Buccal]

Yes Definetely, ive actually stored it away so I can go over it from time to time.
It is very interesting, especially something mentioned that I say a lot,,,, feeding fish is a art.
All those different species and going through what I've noticed having hunger cycles.
Thanks for forwarding that info.

[Ronny]

I've done the same, too much to read in one day lol. 

 

It's a shame there hasn't really been much funded/conclusive studies conducted for for the fish trade/hobby.

 

What do you make of this artice Buccal? 

 

http://www.ejabf.eg....ol-14-n-2/2.pdf

Edited by Ronny, 20 August 2013 - 10:35 AM.

[Buccal]

They reported that groups fed on diets with 10 or 20g garlic for two months or 20g garlic/kg diet for one month showed significant increase in the final body weight after 8 months compared to the control group. The present study was conducted to evaluate the effect of garlic supplementation of mono-sex Nile tilapia diets on growth performance, nutrients utilization, carcass traits, whole body composition and some blood serum parameters.

Well that's some serious research there,,,, every avenue is explored,,,, this research is taken very seriously as its the key to feeding the starving unfortunate people of the world,,,,,,, and Tilapia is perfect for this.
But I instantly thought this:
The information package I plugged up at the start, was research more based on ornamental fish that live full extended lives and these so called effects of garlic takes place in a long term manor.
It's obvious that there are benefits short term.

Tilapia is selected for a food fish because of its rapid growth and hardiness.
Because they grow to a large eating size fast,,,,,, the implications of garlic may not show due to simply not being subjected to for long enough.

A tilapia fed garlic that grows to eating/harvest size in 8 months, versus ornamental fish fed garlic living in the aquarium for 8 years or more.
these internal organ lesions as discussed in the info I put up, begin a bit further on down the track.

Edited by Buccal, 20 August 2013 - 10:04 PM.

[bigjohnnofish]

interesting... bit like a fish steroid for tilapia... how big would an 8 mth tilapia be ?

 

do we still have them available for aquaponic use here in WA ? or are they declared noxious... i do remember reading some varieties of them were grey listed...

[Buccal]

The Oreochromis Tanganicae is a usable specie,,,, but it's now blacklisted,,, as well as all Oreochromis species.
Before they were blacklisted I bought some and gave some to a mate for his aquaponics.
He managed to breed them 3 times but due to inexperience the fry died on all occasions.
These fish grow super duper fast,,, and for a tropical fish they actually handle temp changes well,,, they are very adaptable.
I can see why for the blacklisting.
In twelve months confined in a closed 3000 liter aquaponics system, these fish grew from 6cm to a good 30cm in a bit less than 12 months.
In a farmed situation with expansive space they would do much better, and is well known that they grow bigger than in the wild fed on high hi nutrient foods.
In some of the third world countries,,, there tilapia farming programs for the poor.
These fish are fed a very cheap alternative,,,,, chicken feed pellets,,,, and they do well on it.
A messy food to use in a small closed system,,,, as my mate found out when he didn't take my advice.
Spiked with ammonia, but the fish pulled through fine.
For a Tanganyika fish they are amazingly hardly,,, though they are great adaptors of tributary bodies around those areas which support forced strong adaptation.
I'm sure that they are of a medium eating quality.

Edited by Buccal, 21 August 2013 - 04:43 AM.

[Ronny]

I know they were based on food fish and designed to find a safe way to harvest fish faster but probably more relevant than studies conducted on marine species.

 

One thing I did find interesting in another study was that they stated the use of garlic or fennel actually reduced the amount of lipids in thh fishes system which in the link you put up is the cause of long term heart and liver issues.

Can be found here in the result section:

http://www.idosi.org...fms1(1)09/8.pdf

 

 

I think it can be of some benefit supplemented into a diet but like all things has some pretty nasty effects when used in excess. 

 

What I'm trying to find now is how much is too much and how much foods like NLS and hikari use in their products so I can determin how much to use.

Edited by Ronny, 21 August 2013 - 07:18 AM.

[werdna]

Stolen pic from this guy here http://www.chattersonfarms.com/ off the BYAP forum

 

Oh well, not for us

[Ronny]

LOL, maybe you could use garlic on your barra or trout.  Before cooking I mean 

[Buccal]

Good pickup to link the outcomes from those separate studies to better a conclusion,,,
I would think the long term exposure to garlic may be where the over dose would begin,,,, maybe two thirds through the fishes life ??.
Some pellets reek of garlic.
But I'm not saying the dry feed garlic doses are causing any problems either,,, just a bit up in the air.
Out of most other cichlids,,, it's the Malawi and tangs that react badly to terrestrial protein and supplement.
Terrestrial supplement is still beneficial but not totally usable by the fish.
Where as actual aquatic proteins are fully uptaken by the fish.

Some manufactures are now turning away from terrestrial proteins and replacing with aquatic,,,
I'm sure this is what Spectrum has done. (wheat meal to kelp) hence the problems of their sinking pellets are floating in some batches.

I'm also sure that any aquarist doing the right thing with his/her set ups for fish,,, shouldn't need the aid of the so called garlic effects which would have to be minimal anyway.
Still plenty of fish get sick and white spot or what have you,,, whilst having a diet of garlic laced dry feeds.

Those are some huge bloody Oreo's there and jammed packed to,,,, amazing set ups there.

[bigjohnnofish]

wow nice pic of a nice setup... man i want them tanks with the glass windows... look awesomely cool and you can see what you're gonna eat... pick out the aggressors first lol

[werdna]

I'll upload a photo of his Koi tank if you want.
That is probably using almost double the stocking density.
And no need for o2 injection. Amazing setups

[Ronny]

Buccal, Have you seen any studies conducted on the digestion issues of terrestrial plants in freshwater fish?

 

I was recently told that they cannot digest it due to the cellulose and was told that is why sea weed is better? What didn't make sense to me is that sea weed also has cellulose, as all plants do so I was looking for verification on that but never got a reply.

 

Here's another article you may find interesting.

This one shows that the survival rate of fish fed on garlic or fennel supplements had a higher survival rate.

The reason for that is unconfirmed though and could have been due to either a better feed intake or the antitoxic, atibacterial properties of garlic acting as an immune stimulator.

 

http://www.ejabf.eg....ol-12-n-2/5.pdf

 

Edited by Ronny, 22 August 2013 - 06:24 AM.