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Breeding Gambusia


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32 replies to this topic

#21 Westie

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 10:03 AM

 

remind me to wear a condom on my head next time it rains 

 

Is this you dilireouz?

Condoms_as_hats.jpg



#22 smirq

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 10:19 AM

Gotta agree slightly with Johnno here. Microwaving does alter the molecular structure. It increases the dissolution propensity of both hydrophobic and hydrophilic elements due to a rise in molecular mobility and reduced crystallinity. This doesn't necessarily make the water deadly, but has the potential to alter the bioavailability of impurities within the solution, whether beneficial or toxic. 


Edited by smirq, 04 July 2014 - 10:20 AM.


#23 werdna

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 03:01 PM

dont believe everything you read on snopes... try it for yourself mate... :)

http://microwavetest.blogspot.com.au/
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=TO6DJz3OF8Q
http://blogs.mcgill....kill-the-plant/
http://wafflesatnoon...crowaved-water/
http://ehealthmd.com...s#axzz36TrP4FKd
 
The photos used in the article seem very likely to be photoshopped
Attached File  xOebWZt.gif   75.85KB   5 downloads


ooops was typing in a hurry meant molecular structure.....

How exactly can the molecular structure be changed?
A microwave works (in simple terms) by exciting the water molecules, causing them to vibrate at a molecular level, which causes friction and heat.
That is why heating things like pies means the pastry stays fairly cool, while the filling gets hot, there is little water content in pastry compared to the filling.
Nothing in the structure itself is changed.

#24 Leigh

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 04:50 PM

 

ooops was typing in a hurry meant molecular structure..... well picked up good to see someone is on the ball :)

 

So to be upfront - I am skeptical. Specifically....how is the water molecules structure altered? It obviously starts out looking like below.....what does it become once microwaved and how does the new structure become toxic?

Attached File  water.JPG   13.03KB   6 downloads

 

Gotta agree slightly with Johnno here. Microwaving does alter the molecular structure. It increases the dissolution propensity of both hydrophobic and hydrophilic elements due to a rise in molecular mobility and reduced crystallinity. This doesn't necessarily make the water deadly, but has the potential to alter the bioavailability of impurities within the solution, whether beneficial or toxic. 

 

What you are referring to is not molecular structure, but regardless -  "regular" heating of water would also increase dissolution, increase molecular mobility, reduce crystallinity, etc.

Would be interested to read more however to see if these properties do in fact alter by more than just the heat imparted on the water - you got a source you can direct?



#25 smirq

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 06:43 PM

What you are referring to is not molecular structure, but regardless -  "regular" heating of water would also increase dissolution, increase molecular mobility, reduce crystallinity, etc.

Would be interested to read more however to see if these properties do in fact alter by more than just the heat imparted on the water - you got a source you can direct?

 

Here's the article I ripped the big words off - http://www.jpier.org...?paper=09092105

 

Though the article regards medication, I assume it would apply to other elements also.

 

From Harvard http://www.health.ha...nutrition.shtml

 

 Microwave ovens cook food with waves of oscillating electromagnetic energy ...  primarily affecting molecules that are electrically asymmetrical — one end positively charged and the other negatively so. Chemists refer to that as a polarity. Water is a polar molecule..

 

I'm not a lab coat, but I'd also assume that this oscillation of EM energy would affect the hydrogen bonds between individual H2O molecules (http://en.wikipedia...._bonds_in_water). 

 

Not sure if you're familiar with the hedge magic of magnetised water. The jury is out, and it's about as controversial as religion or climate change (it's more like religion though, because unlike climate change, we lack the science to provide empirical evidence). There's a chance that it's not much more explainable than the placebo effect, but it sells bracelets.

 

Water is able to form in a crystalline liquid state. That's pretty uncommon. There are benefits with a crystalline structure in solids, and likely in water too. Maybe the constant EM from magnets helps form this structure? Maybe the oscillating EM from microwaves disrupts this structure? Given the choice I'd prefer a fist full of snowflakes over an ice block.

 

Assuming all this is good and true, there's plenty of other factors. Unless water was sufficiently pure, non H2O molecules would be influential. How strong an EM field is being applied? For how long? What position within the EM field is the water? What is the vessel it's in made of, and what shape is it? How long since it was in the EM field before it was consumed?

 

Personally I recon you should wait for the water to cool down before giving it to the plant, or it'll die. Once it's cooled down, the water's probably mostly gone back to it's pre-microwave structure.

Also, it's probably better for the health of the plant to keep it on your subwoofer instead of the microwave.


Edited by smirq, 04 July 2014 - 06:45 PM.


#26 Labcat

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 09:40 PM

It increases the dissolution propensity of both hydrophobic and hydrophilic elements due to a rise in molecular mobility and reduced crystallinity.

 

This is the give-away.  A sentence that sounds plausible and 'sciency' but....  doesn't actually mean anything.

 

In actual fact heating water is jostling the molecules to make them move more vigorously.  You can do that with conduction, via infrared radiation (warm glow from an overhead gas heater) or even visible light if there's enough of it.  Microwaves are lower in energy than both infrared and visible light and can only heat water because the frequency happens to resonate with the natural 'jostling frequency' of water molecules.  Much like pushing a child's swing with a little nudge at each passing swing, until she's going wheeeee! The end result is the same, the water gets heated and is not mysteriously altered otherwise.

 

Now, what was that about Gambusia?



#27 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 01:34 AM

microwaves destroy food at a cellular level... as it destroys vitamins and minerals in microwaved water... hence the reason why a plant watered with microwaved water ends up dying because it lacks any uptake of minerals.... 

 

http://www.naturalne..._nutrients.html

 

hey werdna take the time out and try it for yourself.... so quick to google and quote its wrong... i have been told so many times 046's need soft water and tds levels of down to 100 or they wont breed on the internet - but guess what bred them with tds levels of 350-450 and def not what i'd call soft water... hands on experience outweighs a google twit everyday of the week :)


"Nukers," as many call them, produce microwave radiation that interacts with molecules in food. That wave "energy" changes the polarity of those molecules from positive to negative with each cycle of the wave, at millions of times per second. This severe agitation (and friction) bombards the food and forcefully deforms it. The scientific name for this is "structural isomerism."



#28 smirq

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 09:46 AM

 

This is the give-away.  A sentence that sounds plausible and 'sciency' but....  doesn't actually mean anything.

 

In actual fact heating water is jostling the molecules to make them move more vigorously.  You can do that with conduction, via infrared radiation (warm glow from an overhead gas heater) or even visible light if there's enough of it.  Microwaves are lower in energy than both infrared and visible light and can only heat water because the frequency happens to resonate with the natural 'jostling frequency' of water molecules.  Much like pushing a child's swing with a little nudge at each passing swing, until she's going wheeeee! The end result is the same, the water gets heated and is not mysteriously altered otherwise.

 

Now, what was that about Gambusia?

 

How can it not mean anything when it was blatantly plagiarized from a peer reviewed journal article? 

 

Heat, regardless of the source, affects things at a molecular level. That's why scientists have Bunsen burners. Some vitamins and minerals degrade (this is the basis of the raw food movement). The difference with microwaves is the effect of EMF.

 

 

 

Microwave ovens operate at a frequency of 2.45 GHz (2.45x109 Hz) and this is NOT the resonant frequency of a water molecule. This frequency is much lower than the diatomic molecule resonant frequencies mentioned earlier. If 2.45 GHz were the resonant frequency of water molecules the microwaves would all be absorbed in the surface layer of a substance (liquid water or food) and so the interior of the food would not get cooked at all. 
http://www.schoolphy...vens/index.html

 

 

 

 

Molecular rotation occurs in materials containing polar molecules having an electrical dipole moment, with the consequence that they will align themselves in an electromagnetic field. If the field is oscillating, as it is in an electromagnetic wave or in a rapidly oscillating electric field, these molecules rotate continuously aligning with it. This is called dipole rotation, or Dipolar Polarisation. As the field alternates, the molecules reverse direction. Rotating molecules push, pull, and collide with other molecules (through electrical forces), distributing the energy to adjacent molecules and atoms in the material. Once distributed, this energy appears as heat.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_heating

 

It's like pushing a kid on a swing, but inverting gravity periodically.

 

 

 

Waterfat, and other substances in the food absorb energy from the microwaves in a process called dielectric heating. Many molecules (such as those of water) are electric dipoles, meaning that they have a partial positive charge at one end and a partial negative charge at the other, and therefore rotate as they try to align themselves with the alternating electric field of the microwaves. Rotating molecules hit other molecules and put them into motion, thus dispersing energy. This energy, when dispersed as molecular vibration in solids and liquids (i.e., as both potential energy andkinetic energy of atoms), is heat. Sometimes, microwave heating is explained as a resonance of water molecules, but this is incorrect;[14] such resonances occur only at above 1 terahertz (THz).
http://en.wikipedia....oven#Principles

Edited by smirq, 05 July 2014 - 09:55 AM.


#29 sandgroper

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 10:14 PM

So then how come i grew to be 6ft 3in using a microwave oven, are you saying that if i hadn't used a microwave oven i would have grown to 10ft 64in.



#30 deliriouz

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 10:30 PM

freaking microwaves...there's no escape for us 

If it ain't the oven shrinking my nuts, it'll be the mobile phone giving me brain cancer



#31 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 01:23 AM

wont argue with that one mate... guy that used to work for us at the gym i owned was forever talking on his mobile phone and died couple years ago from a massive brain tumour that ate his brain from inside out like an octopus spreading its tenticles... horrible death and horrible leaving his missus with 3 kids aged 5 to 18 and the 18 year old is massively down syndrome....  :(  :(  :(



#32 SOEdigital

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 12:37 PM

.......water having genetic properties,,,,,,now I've heard it all.



#33 Noddy65

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 04:57 AM

I ended up doing the microwave vs boiled water experiment....made zero difference to the plants...both survived and grew a little....just another Internet based load of rubbish




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