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Collecting In The South West


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#41 pseudechisbutleri

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 10:39 AM

I'd say spawning salamanders is already a pretty big achievement, that's one big step towards a promising future.



#42 Mr_docfish

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 01:09 PM

The boys at Murdoch where able to spawn salamanderfish but had no success raising the juveniles. Although my understanding is they may not have really tried that hard.

Juls

 

Maybe time to get us pleb hobbyists involved.... Look at the Murray and Mary River Cods.... bred in captivity - ensuring that the wild populations are free from the brink of extinction.

And the Lake Echam rainbow - though easy to breed, but still some hobbyists kept the gene pool alive on them.... just a couple of Aussie examples of how it is possible to keep a species from extinction by using the knowledge and abilities of non-governmentalised public.

 

There should be a push for a proper controlled breeding program while the gene pool of salamander fish still exists... lets now wait for the last puddle.



#43 pseudechisbutleri

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 03:23 PM

 

Maybe time to get us pleb hobbyists involved.... Look at the Murray and Mary River Cods.... bred in captivity - ensuring that the wild populations are free from the brink of extinction.

And the Lake Echam rainbow - though easy to breed, but still some hobbyists kept the gene pool alive on them.... just a couple of Aussie examples of how it is possible to keep a species from extinction by using the knowledge and abilities of non-governmentalised public.

 

There should be a push for a proper controlled breeding program while the gene pool of salamander fish still exists... lets now wait for the last puddle.

 

Not just for salamanders, but the other protected natives could benefit from such a program.



#44 Juls

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 08:31 PM

So I've just read it's official, salamanderfish and black stripe minnow are on the endangered species list.

While it's bad news that they need to be listed as endangered it's also good news as they are both extremely vulnerable to both humans and excessive dry weather spells.

I hope the higher than usual rainfall in the past 12 months gives these fish the little kick they need right now.

Unfortunately for those considering capturing this fish, now you need to break 2 laws to do it.

https://m.facebook.c...02312&__tn__=*s

Edited by Juls, 19 January 2017 - 08:45 PM.


#45 pseudechisbutleri

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 09:16 PM

Great news, but what makes being listed as Endangered better than being listed as whatever they were previously listed as?

 

Hang on, are you implying from the last sentence that, prior to this change, they were legal to capture?



#46 Juls

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 09:30 PM

2 years ago, they where somewhat legal to capture, well big enough grey area it was neither illegal or legal, status was "near threatened" 2 ranges up from endangered.
Basically ment there status was to be monitored which it has been.

12-18 months ago added to do not take list, legislative protection by state law.
Now listed as endangered, which is a secondary legislative protection by national law.

Both of which are administered by fisheries.

Why is it better than just the do not take list? Because most people understand that endangered means leave them alone, it also makes the fish more eligible for funding towards its recovery, and in turn things like funded breeding programs and habitat conservation, being endangered gives scientists like freshwater fish group the ability to work more closely with said species as it ranks them of much higher importance.

This being said I really think "Little Pygmy perch" is more likely to become extinct than salamanderfish assuming that our weather for the south west doesn't get stuck in a loop of continuous long dry winters and extended dry summers.

This past year broke the dry stretch we had been having, as for if it'll help salamanderfish? I'm uncertain as a few of the locations I know are dryer than normal for this time of year yet others are unusually wetter than normal., in addition a number of sites have in past few years either experience bushfires or prescribed burns.

I'm still seeing 1cm juveniles during winter at the usual locations which is always nice, but it's hard to say how many make it through the first summer, and if there pools dry up prematurely and life saving rain doesn't happen soon enough then a majority don't make it.

Edited by Juls, 19 January 2017 - 10:02 PM.


#47 pseudechisbutleri

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 07:06 AM

I see, hopefully the Freshwater Fish group can organize something like funded breeding programs (just like they did for the trout minnow) for the salamanders and the black striped minnows, plus the little Pygmy.

#48 pseudechisbutleri

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 08:15 PM

Have species ever had their conservation status lowered?



#49 keleherr

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 02:42 PM

This being said I really think "Little Pygmy perch" is more likely to become extinct than salamanderfish assuming that our weather for the south west doesn't get stuck in a loop of continuous long dry winters and extended dry summers.
 

The Little pygmy perch is much more widespread than first though, one of those look and you will find things. They also get quite large so they jumped the gun on the name. The Balston's was found in much lower numbers.

I see, hopefully the Freshwater Fish group can organize something like funded breeding programs (just like they did for the trout minnow) for the salamanders and the black striped minnows, plus the little Pygmy.

once you get something listed a crazy amount of red tape goes up that makes setting up a program incredibly difficult.

Fisheries spawned the trout minnow.

Have species ever had their conservation status lowered?

yeh the freshwater mussel



#50 pseudechisbutleri

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 08:44 AM

Fisheries spawned the trout minnow.

I heard, though probably in low numbers; not enough to rejuvenate the populations, and the trout minnow is still listed as critically endangered.

 

 

once you get something listed a crazy amount of red tape goes up that makes setting up a program incredibly difficult.

 

Such as?

 

 

yeh the freshwater mussel

 

That's promising, though I'd think it would take a lot of time for something like that to happen.



#51 keleherr

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 03:48 PM

I heard, though probably in low numbers; not enough to rejuvenate the populations, and the trout minnow is still listed as critically endangered.

 

Think they just collected fish about to spawn and milked them as they couldn't get them to condition in the tubs.

They are listed because they are so restricted and the assessment process. Their main location is the Goodga River the weir caused them to pretty much disappear from the upper half and a reduction like that gets it listed. Since the fishway went in they are now throughout but are still listed due to them being restricted. Same species exist over east and is common but this population is distinct being land locked and a different species if you talk to a geneticist, but so are pygmy perch from 2 neighboring rivers...

 

Such as?

Instead of dealing with just fisheries you are now dealing with DPaw and the feds who have their own sets of rules. You would have to prove things like taking some individuals wouldn't harm the overall population and the genetics of your stock is appropriate for release/won't be detrimental to the genetics of the wild population. I'm all for captive breeding but its not a straight forward or cheap task.

The trout minnow breeding was part of an 850k NRM grant.

 

 

 

That's promising, though I'd think it would take a lot of time for something like that to happen.

It got listed again and nominated for listing under the EPBC act because who wants to fund research on non listed animals or animals of low economic value.
 



#52 pseudechisbutleri

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 06:39 AM

I heard, though probably in low numbers; not enough to rejuvenate the populations, and the trout minnow is still listed as critically endangered.

 

Think they just collected fish about to spawn and milked them as they couldn't get them to condition in the tubs.

They are listed because they are so restricted and the assessment process. Their main location is the Goodga River the weir caused them to pretty much disappear from the upper half and a reduction like that gets it listed. Since the fishway went in they are now throughout but are still listed due to them being restricted. Same species exist over east and is common but this population is distinct being land locked and a different species if you talk to a geneticist, but so are pygmy perch from 2 neighboring rivers...

The Goodga population of the trout minnow might remain protected, due to being restricted, and how it cannot spread, as the Goodga does not seem to branch off into any larger system.

 

 


Instead of dealing with just fisheries you are now dealing with DPaw and the feds who have their own sets of rules. You would have to prove things like taking some individuals wouldn't harm the overall population and the genetics of your stock is appropriate for release/won't be detrimental to the genetics of the wild population. I'm all for captive breeding but its not a straight forward or cheap task.

The trout minnow breeding was part of an 850k NRM grant.

Yes, removing individuals (especially from the more threatened populations) would affect the population somewhat significantly, especially if the breeding program fails.


Edited by pseudechisbutleri, 23 February 2017 - 06:47 AM.


#53 pseudechisbutleri

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 04:08 PM

Out of all the protected natives, the Balston's Pygmy and the Western Mud Minnow have the lowest conservation status (both Vulnerable), and though still at risk of significant decline, they're not as threatened as nigrostriata, pygmaea, salamandroides and truttaceus, which are all Endangered. Is there an increase in populations of Balstons' and Muddies', as to where their conservation status will lower to Near Threatened?


Edited by pseudechisbutleri, 05 March 2017 - 04:08 PM.


#54 pseudechisbutleri

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 01:51 PM

Forgive me for my ignorance, I'm not an ecologist, but from what I have found, it appears that Galaxiella munda is the least threatened, out of all our protected species, as according to what I have read, they can be found in large numbers at some locations (headwaters of Margaret River, as well as anywhere along the Angove) at some times of year (around November, when large numbers of juveniles are migrating).

All our protected species, except Munda, appear to have some sort of specific threat (other than the usual of habitat alteration and introduced species). For example, Balston's are always rare wherever they're found (not sure why), Trout Minnows are only found in a couple systems (though they are somewhat abundant within these systems), Little Pygmy's are also restricted, and Salamanders and black-stripes are threatened by lack of rainfall.

#55 keleherr

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 11:42 AM

Depends what list it is on state, fed or international. Each of these have different criteria for each category.  Of the fish listed, only trutts and balstons are on the fed (EPBC) list which offers the most protection for a species, can stop projects etc. So even though the status is lower it could be seen as higher if that makes sense.

G. munda is probably on there due to salinisation as the require fairly fresh water and probably suffered a range decline.



#56 pseudechisbutleri

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 05:42 PM

Keleherr, do you know if the freshwater fish group plan on conducting any breeding programs on the protected species (state level) in the near future?

 

It would be unfortunate for these species to decline right under our noses, without at least an attempt to bring these species back into abundance.


Edited by pseudechisbutleri, 14 August 2017 - 05:44 PM.


#57 keleherr

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 11:44 AM

Haven't worked at the freshwater fish group for a while.

Don't think so, they don't have the facilities to produce fish on a large scale. Fisheries had a facility but there is no funding to run it.

Best chance is to protect important areas and translocate/reintroduce these species into other suitable habitats. 

As these species have no recreational value little money will be thrown at them compared to species like Murray Cod.  

 

With what I said before about the EPBC act offering the most protection it was not entirely accurate. It depends what the project may be (e.g. oil and gas has its own legislation) and different government bodies state or federal and acts have different agreements with who has the most pull. In the case of nearshore and inland fish, my understanding is fisheries/ WA state has the most pull.

As an example, even though Sawfish were listed by the feds you could still take them. It wasn't until they were listed by the state they were given complete protection. That was a few years ago and I'm not sure how the agreements all work now



#58 pseudechisbutleri

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 03:30 PM

Though conserving natural habitats would certainly help, it probably won't solve all problems, e.g. climate change and feral species. Certainly a breeding program would help populations more than indirect actions such as habitat protection, though a breeding program would be unlikely to occur (or at least one run by an official group, such as the FFG or Perth Zoo).

With state listing being the most protection a species can be offered, federal listing doesn't really matter.

Edited by pseudechisbutleri, 17 August 2017 - 10:38 AM.





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