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Raw Diet

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#1 Peckoltia

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 03:44 PM

Hi

 

Like many people, I have been a dog owner my whole life. Always went down the road of feeding commercially available dog foods. I have always splashed out for the 'premium' dog foods. Always assuming that this was the best thing for my dogs. I have a miniature pinscher and she has been an allergy sufferer for many years, usually having itchy ears as a symptom. Have tried all sorts of medications, and getting her ears 'flushed' at the vets, as well as specialised dog foods from the vet for allergy suffering dogs (which had no effect). Nothing seemed to work completely and I truly think that all these things were simply treating the symptoms, rather than the root cause.

 

I first started reading about a raw diet for dogs a couple of years back and became quite interested in it, something that the vet that I see quickly squashed (not to say she is a 'bad' vet, she has taken very good care of my dog for a long period of time). So, I didn't look into it more, taking the vets word for it.

 

In the end I thought, I'm going to give this a bit more reading and give it a crack. Since putting my dog on a raw diet, she has not scratched her ears once! she appears happier (although this is subjective to my interpretation of happiness), her coat seems softer and her breath doesn't smell at all. The breath was a big one, as she is an old dog (13years) and her breath was starting to really smell and she has had her teeth cleaned at the vets within the last 6 months (cost me about $450 from memory) I think the difference in her breath can largely be attributed to chewing of bones and using her jaw muscles to gnaw rather than just swallowing soft foods. I have gone for a BARF raw diet which includes some vegetable matter as it is a little closer to what her commercial food was like, and I didn't want to do something too radical with such an old dog like the whole prey diet. My dog also suffers from a slightly enlarged heart, which she is medicated for on a daily basis. Due to this her salt intake needs to be closely monitored. Many commercial dog foods are high in salt (especially snacks). That is if you even trust what is in the dog food. I have a close friend who has a young dog who is a severe allergy sufferer, itchy ears (to the point of causing damage to his ears), tearing fur out and itchy pads. I am going to get him to give the raw diet a crack, interested to see if it has the same effect on his dog.

 

I am currently in contact with breeders looking for a Great Dane at the moment, and I will 100% be putting my new dog on a raw diet. Probably the whole prey raw diet. I think that this will do a Great Dane and other large/giant breeds a world of good, as it promotes a more regulated growth in puppies. Regulated "even" growth is great for dogs who have a predisposition to suffer from ailments like hip dysplasia.

 

The simple facts of this way of feeding is based around many commercial foods containing lots of preservatives and many are grain based. Dogs are essentially wolves in dogs clothing, and such should be fed a carnivorous diet. Feeding uncooked bones help with healthy teeth and jaw muscles. The mouth is a gateway to your animal, and a healthy mouth on your pet is a positive start to a healthy animal.

 

Why don't Vets tell people about feeding a raw diet? I'm not sure. I know from studying at university (BSc Biological Science) you are never taught everything. It is possible that canine nutrition is not properly taught. Another school of thought is that it is not good for business, but I am not going to subscribe to that school of thought as I think 98% of Vets would have the animals best interest at heart, and to keep a dogs health at less than optimal condition is not something that most would have the heart to do.

 

What annoys me is the reasoning that some people and vets included give for not feeding a raw diet, like they are too far domesticated to be fed a diet that more closely mimics a wolves diet. That is garbage, through domestication and selective breeding we have changed the phenotype that dogs show, the internal physiology has not changed. There is also the argument that wolves eat the gut content of herbivores, perhaps. Small prey items, sure they will get some plant matter. Watch a doco of a wolf (or any large carnivore) eating a large prey item, the gut content is usually left behind, or only a small portion is eaten after most of it has been shaken out. If this is an issue for you, add some 'green tripe' to your dogs diet which is the stomach lining of a cow. The BARF method of feeding also includes some vegetables.

 

Price? for such a small dog (3.2kg) the cost difference isn't even noticed. For a large breed, it is a more expensive method of feeding, but you can make this exercise cheaper by shopping around and buying in bulk, it is like anything in life. The generally accepted amount to feed is 2-3% of your dogs body weight per day, some dogs may require less or more based on genetics and activity level, similar to peoples intake needs.

 

I could go on at length on the subject, but I have written enough for now.

 

Anyone else feed a raw diet? I'd highly recommended giving it a go, especially if you have an allergy suffering dog. The only down side is you may be dealing with loose stools for the first couple days while the gut of your dog becomes adjusted. I'd suggest even a day between changing diets a cleansing period.

 

I am no expert on the subject nor am I claiming to be an expert on dog nutrition. However, I have studied biology at the university level (not the be all end all by any means!), done many many hours of reading and can see the proof in the pudding with my own loved best friend. I know everyone loves their dogs like a part of the family. The enrichment that they give us can not be quantitatively measured, but it is a sh!t load! Why not do all you can to give them a better quality of life? I'm not saying for 1 second that feeding commercially available dog food makes you a bad dog owner. I'm just trying to raise a bit of awareness and start a discussion on the subject. A few years back I wouldn't have really thought that this was a real option for one reason or another, and I didn't appreciate the potential benefits that my dog could get out of it!

 

Apologies for the length of this post (if you have gotten this far ;) )

 

Cheers,

 

Alex


Edited by Peckoltia, 05 June 2013 - 04:03 PM.


#2 waxy

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 05:09 PM

I too have had pet dogs all of my life and agree the companionship and unconditional love is unrivaled by anything else.

As for a raw diet I have not tried it strictly but our dog does only get "dog food" once a week to keep him regular. We feed Mainly lean mince, cooked chicken meat (no bones), raw chicken necks, steak, fish (raw and cooked) rice, carrots and dog biscuits for his teeth. I must admit I dont always have time to prepare all this stuff but the wife looks after him more than she does me. Our dog is medium sized and weighs around 27kgs, hats off to you Alex if you can devote the time to purchase and prepare all this for a great dane. Im guessing it will eat double the amount of my pooch. But like you said why not give your dog the best nutrition available? They are definately worth it.

PS Love the great danes.



#3 Leigh

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 06:51 PM

For what it is worth, go out to the wheat belt and look at what those farming dogs eat. Having come from there myself and all my extended family still there - it is whatever is the latest beast we have butchered. Bones and whatever is left over from making sausages, mince or taking the best cuts for the coolroom. The rest is dog food. Perhaps some sort of vegies every so often, but the dogs were pretty luke warm on this.

 

Beautiful teeth, coat and extrodinary long lives. Our last red heeler died around 18 years old. Like you, I am not a vet but can judge on evidence and outcomes.



#4 Buccal

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 08:25 PM

That is a great personal experience write up Alex, I completely agree and have similar practices.
When I first got my border collie about 5 years ago, I started feeding him eukanuba biscuits,, he was always scratching and rubbing the sides of his head along the ground.
He was also always turning around as if someone was always touching his tail.
As time went on after 4-5 months his stools were pussy mush and a clear membrane always present, and good lord did it stink.
He couldn't just simply defecate as per normal,,, more like multiple intervals over a few minutes.
All this was getting worse and I was very worried,,, the vet swore the eukanuba was the premium biscuit to feed along with the processed polony like dog roll. (know now preservative city)

I started to get worried my dog had a disorder,,, at this point I never owned a computer (ever).
My mum called me one day and said a recall due to hi level of salmonella in eukanuba in the U.S was issued for a few months.
This made me instantly bloody angry,, a week later I had a computer.
I started googling,,, salmonella does not effect effect dogs in the same way as humans,,,, we ingest once and we are screwed.
For dogs, it does no harm,,, but many case studies have proven excessive amounts causes internal damage.

The dates on my dogs food matched up to the recalls.
I marched in to better pets and gardens and the vet where I had been buying the biscuits.
Can you believe their shelves were still full of this product.
Both stores said they ceased the ordering of this food.
I said what about the stuff on the shelf still. ????
They both said after they sell the rest, there won't be any more for a few months,,, whaaaat, they still kept selling it, F--K me.

I started researching dog biscuits,,,, the happiest I was with after te research was Nutro, it's ozy made and does everything it says it will.
It sounds weird,, but their fur drops out and thicker shiny healthy hair grows in place,,, and it really happened.
Within two weeks, all symptoms had gone,,,, and yes, his fruity surprises were wonderful small firm nuggets with no smell.
Nutro also says that the stools will become less in amount as the result of no fillers, unlike all other biscuit.

I have since then, maintained my beasts diet with 50% Nutro biscuit and 50% roo or lean beef meat (human consumption),,, but only 10-20% cooked,,, so virtually raw.

So when it comes to it when getting advice,,, yes,,, is usually based on the shops profit.
For some scary shite,,, google dog food secrets.

#5 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:41 AM

to find the best food for your dog is trial and error... im sure we all remember pal dog food farts!!!! poooooorrrr!!!! 

 

we feed prodominantly a pedigree biscuit base with pedigree can food on top.... but one large can split 4 ways between 4 bigish dogs... most of their nutrition comes from the biscuit... and can food is to add a little flavour! we have dog bones on hand 24/7... big clod bones litter the house at times... 

 

but i have no doubt if your having allergies or scratchin do change your food... 

 

when next doors chickens venture onto our property we feed raw meat!!! well they feed themselves lol... 

 

but its your dogs coat , health and breath that indicates to me whether or not their food is sufficient...

 

and alex unfortunately even vets have to rely on making money from selling their dry goods on the shelves. 

 

stools are always consistant now... no sludge!!! except when the missus feeds them human food and treats!!! i get snakey as i'm the shiit shoveller !!!



#6 Peckoltia

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:39 PM

Waxy - sounds like your wife is putting in a lot of love and effort into your dog, well done to you and your wife. Danes are great dogs. I had one as a kid, and loved him dearly. He was a good guardian of the family home and a devoted companion. Can't wait to get another one. Timing depends on if I take my current dog to my new house or if my mum wants to keep her. I wouldn't get such a large dog with such an elderly small dog. The risk when playing is too great. A great dane fits what I want perfectly, a massive dog that needs to be walked daily (not run), if I can't get around to running the dog at least the mrs wont have trouble walking. It is actually recommended to not run Danes at all prior to about 12-18months due to the excessive growth at this stage. Even excessive play is not recommended, especially on slippery tiles. The only major down side of the breed other than the obvious 'problems' with the breed is a relatively short life expectancy ~10years. My best mates old man recently put his Dane down, she lived to be 14years old, which is epic for the breed. Buying from a reputable breeder (that does hip scoring especially), feeding a well balanced diet with regular appropriate exercise should hold a Dane owner in good stead though, but nothing is a guarantee in this world.

 

As strange as it is, i look forward to preparing all my new mates meals. I am down at the fish markets most weekends buying fresh food grade seafood for my stingrays and other fish, it is really just an extension of that. Plus, I can sneak in a few steaks for myself at the same time ;) The cost is going to be somewhere from $50-80 a week in food costs. Which again I don't mind as I don't go out drinking anywhere near as regularly as I used to and 80 bucks doesn't even get me out the front door on a night out. :)

 

Leigh - You have seen what a raw diet can do first hand, it is amazing. 18years is a ripe old age for any size dog!

 

Buccal - Good on you mate for doing the research and altering your dogs diet! Your dog looked happy and healthy when I saw it! Just gotta watch out for a paw to the nuts! ;) On the size of the dog poo, you have noticed what most raw feeders do. A decrease in the size of them and they become more 'firm'. My dogs poo was never big to begin with so not something I have taken particular notice of. I have researched dogs diets extensively, and you are right some of it is down right scarey!

 

Johnno - I had a red cloud kelpie many years ago. I know exactly what you mean about the Pal farts. She probably had the worst diet imaginable, lots of Pal and human left overs. She was always over weight despite being run on a daily basis due to her excessive energy levels (even though she was overweight). Get a kelpie and don't run them and you are in a world of hurt.

 

On the chickens. Look up the whole prey way of feeding a dog. It is suggested that you feed carcases, either skinned or with skin on. So with things like chickens they eat some feathers and do a bit of teeth cleaning removing any feathers that are too large and rigid to eat. A pretty good meal for your dogs i'd say. Probably pretty stimulating for them chasing a live chicken (not that I'm recommending that to anyone).

 

Thanks for the replies everyone. At the end of the day it is what works best for you and your animals and it is obvious that everyone who has replied, cares very much and does their best. The only thing you need to watch out for is feeding large dense bones to your dogs, such as weight bearing bones and big knuckles of cows etc, as they can fracture dogs teeth. There is something about a dog chewing a bone that does it for me, the enjoyment on their face and the 'animalistic' visual really puts a smile on my face. 

 

Cheers for the replies/your experiences guys.


Edited by Peckoltia, 06 June 2013 - 03:45 PM.


#7 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:51 PM

one question for you alex... we have rottys , rotty x neo mastiffs....

 

did you know there is only one human bone a rotty can not crush in its jaws? like to hazard a guess which bone it is ? 

 

there is always a very small risk of tooth damage when eating any bones... but to date no dramas at all... 



#8 Peckoltia

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 08:47 AM

I'm going to have to go with the obvious answer and say the femur. Although the obscurity of the question means the answer will probably be something abstract? Possibly the pelvis?



#9 scotty81

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 10:08 PM

Great right up Alex, im looking into getting myself a dog soon, when the ex moves out with hers. Will defanitely look into this way of feeding



#10 Conda

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 11:09 PM

Good topic alex im a firm believer on a raw dieti own a 3 yr old german shepard i feed her a mixed diet of chicken necks ,offal ,fresh eggs couple times a week fresh lamb scraps and she also gets a cooked rice mix usully served with some cooked meat for a warm meal once a week .....Attached File  093mojo33.jpg   131.07KB   7 downloads




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