72 replies to this topic

[Buccal]

And check out little LexAgate,, still young,, intelligent little pocket rocket you become hey !! Good on ya.

And by the way all, just because someone loses interest in fish and shuts their tank down and sells privately for rock bottom prices,,, does not mean that's the new value,,,, I'm hoping for those reading they understand and realize this in the future and work it out when particular instances arise.

[LexAgate]

And by the way all, just because someone loses interest in fish and shuts their tank down and sells privately for rock bottom prices,,, does not mean that's the new value,,,, I'm hoping for those reading they understand and realize this in the future and work it out when particular instances arise.

Prices are always wack and it depends on , how keen people are to get rid of them, how much they personally value the fish, how much they previously paid for the fish and other seperate pressures eg. Moving house or financial problems...OR LOSES INTEREST!!!!

So many things to take into consideration!!! Rather than seeing what people might pay, you could always sell and don't put a price have a rough idea in you're head of what you're looking for $$$ wise and hope someone matches or beats it!Of course if you have completely no idea then ask whoever!!!Hopefully you're question was answered in a fairly descriptive and understandable way!

Edited by LexAgate, 04 October 2016 - 06:29 PM.

[Poncho]

I'm honestly struggling with some of the claims in this thread and not seeing any credibility or rationale in the statements made by some others. I expect people to get defensive again because I have a different opinion but too bad because I just think the original poster will get to the end of this thread and be completely misguided.

I looked up the price in one of the latest imports done from Germany that was posted around various forums and facebook etc. This was January this year so very recent. The price of wild caught kigoma frontosa at 15-18 cm was $135. This is a legitimate business with all the overheads etc so I consider it a retail price.

I can't see how when someone asks for an indicative price how providing a range of $350 is even remotely useful let alone intelligent. It's the same as saying "a fish is worth as much as someone is willing to pay". No shit - the sky is also blue and everyone will die eventually. I'd like to see on this forum that when people ask a genuine question, they get a genuine and more importantly - informed - response. That's not where this thread ended up in my opinion.

There are tried and true methods for coming up with indicative pricing and it's not rocket science. Usually and professionally, market prices are predominately based on previous recent sales of the same or similar things. Then you consider various factors that may influence a price and adjust or increase price range to suit. They do this in real estate, auction houses and car yards. Not sure why we wouldn't apply that method here?

The prices suggested by Mattia and Stormfyre I think are very generous. Around $300-$350 by my calculations and I think if you get that, you're doing very well. It's based on prices offered at the shop Mattia works at and I've always found that shop to be generous with trade ins.

But to say these fish are easily worth $450 I think is way out of touch. The word "easily" implies they are worth more than that and that if you wanted you could get $450 tomorrow if you advertised them. I just can't see it.

I said $150-250. Pretty low admittedly and maybe in line with the description of a sale that buccal articulated in his last post. But doesn't that sound not unlike this situation?

If you can get $450 then as implied in my previous post - jump on it, because that is a very very generous offer. To be completely honest, I don't see that statement as being genuine and can't see any of the people saying they are worth that much, going to put their money where their mouth is - but happy to be proved wrong

As mentioned above - January wild caught 7bars for $135. As a second point of reference there is another post on a frontosa forum for F1 kigoma at 15cm. They are 9 for $400 so just over $40 each. These fish weren't called wild caught or even F1 and while I don't buy into the philosophy that wild caught or F1 is better, I do understand these labels attract a premium price.

That's Australia wide and in Sydney respectively. We are in Perth where cichlids private sales for cichlids are typically lower and demand for these fish is not outstripping supply. that would be a factor which would negatively impact the price.

I'd be keen to see similar rationale for prices $450 plus if they can be provided. Otherwise I'd suggest that those numbers are very misleading and will only serve to set the original poster up for disappointment and to be the victim of keyboard warriors who slam anyone they think is trying to rip newbies off - like in the "gumtree" thread in off the wall.

Note - I waited a day or two to post this because some people were getting heated and defensive. My post above is completely about the topic at hand. It would be great to see some response in the same fashion because that is constructive discussion about a topic people are passionate about. I'm not interested in gunning people down but can see how I come off like that, but am interested in giving the original poster a realistic and useful response hence this post.

[Buccal]

Hey poncho, can you source German fronts from Germany now ?

[Poncho]

Don't need to mate, there are plenty here already

But please don't get defensive. I'm interested in how you got to your number, not in comments avoiding the topic at hand. Can you provide that or have you only got statements without substance? Cmon mate - you crave constructive debate so let me play

[Bostave]

Please view this ad:

Frontosa....top quality fry from wild caught parents. SPECIAL!!!,
http://www.gumtree.c...ent=app_android

[LexAgate]

I'm sure buccal gathered up his number by thinking about the average price he would be willing to pay for some high quality fish, of course some people have more cash to splash than others, multiple factors also apply. For once I'm being mature and it feels awful... I'm sure you two can sort this bickering out one way or another but leave this thread alone! Tom Smith, you're fish are around $150-$300 and you have seen the average prices for the different types of quality so see what quality category you're fish fall under... of course some will pay more and less... but prices are always a hard topic, due to it being a personal opinions topic and people like to argue sometimes... I'm going to head to the gp, me being serious and mature... there is obviously something wrong... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited by LexAgate, 05 October 2016 - 09:22 PM.

[Poncho]

Lex,

I'm trying to have constructive debate and offered what I consider some pretty substantial rationale for my opinions. I'm asking for the same from people who have suggested things I disagree with. It's called debate. Don't dismiss me or my post as bickering please. If you find it confronting then don't read

[Buccal]

I think of others "shops",,, working breeding colonies that hit the ground running is worth more than a random male female order.
I never see the cheapest price and make the new bench mark, half your answers were already answered by people in the know how but got wiped by mods.
Lexagate is spot on, I can't see any need to make this technical,, I've seen you use the term 'each to their own' on many occasions, what's different now in this case ?

Do not take the bull by the horns, or you'll get gored.

[Poncho]

What got wiped by mods were things like clips of UFC posted in a context to try and belittle people and similar type comments. Any reference to this topic was not deleted. Sorry buccal, that response just sounds like you're avoiding my questions and using deleted posts as a smokescreen. I find that quite disrespectful as you are implying I do not know what I'm talking about and have no place to contest anything you say.

Is the last comment a threat? If you don't want to talk about frontosa prices then why do you keep posting here?

[Buccal]

Speak to the hand

[Chopstick_mike]

I usually price the fish I sell by seeing what LFS sell them at and generally take 30 to 50% off depending on how rare the fish I'm selling are. Kigoma fronties are common now and I've seen robs sell them at 15cm at 100 so I personally think 50 each is a fair price. Poncho is on the money with his explaining on what fish should be priced at as I'm sick to death seeing people selling at ridiculous prices for fish that are not worth it and if we keep feeding people these ridiculous estimstes people will never learn

Edited by Chopstick_mike, 06 October 2016 - 09:46 PM.

[Pchmb]

This just came up on my Facebook feed, thought it may be of interest to this discussion.

[Buccal]

Thankyou PCHMB, unfortunately in Perth there groups of people that are constantly nibbling away at fish values.
There are some great people that can economically produce nice fish, but once the economical side to fish is crushed,, then those very people that actually keep breeding constantly (with no breaks in between no matter what life dishes out) just stop, so it can be looked at as those people that are thinking profit Over passion are also a part of sustaining cichlids in oz, and possibly the strengths of oz.

The price reccomended price of $150-$250, that's like walking into Bunnings and demanding the goods for the same prices they get them for.
The price of $150-$250 , isn't realistic because, while ordering directly from Germany, you may get a suppliers direct price,, but our better importers that use to operate had a minimum order requirement of 10K, (German requirements given to us).
So you can't just ask for a $150 fish, they'd laugh.

So clearly $150-$250 is supplier bulk only price.

Edited by Buccal, 13 October 2016 - 05:33 AM.

[Mattia]

That price is crazy Paul, we had Wild caught Frontosa Mpimbwe 15-20cm for $245each and haven't sold one in 6 months.
Then dropped the price and sold them.

Marc you obviously are making too much money with your stingrays

Germany had no minimum requirement shipping, but I could even order 1 box if I wanted, but cost of shipping and quarantine etc would be astronomical as would have been divided by only a few fish

[Stormfyre]

They simply dont sell for this in store. You cannot compare apples to oranges either.

 

 

The FB post is Wild Caught, it is also a rarer version in Perth than the Kigoma, which is all over the place now. I bought from PCS auction 6cm F1 Kigoma fry with beautiful blue fins at $5-8 each and they always go cheap. It is a breeding trio not a full blown colony as per FB.

 

 

You can only look at what is selling here in Perth for the same species over the past year to 6 months, in stores and online and then GUESS an approximate value based on the fact they are private sale. As more of the same fish becomes available and spreads around perth the less value it has the interested parties have bought them already. I am sure most folks would agree with that.

 

If Aquotix had WC Mpimbwe 15-20cm for $245each and they couldnt sell until they lowered the price that says it all. That is full blown retail. Privately you would have to accept that unless a person is very keen you will get significantly less. 

[Westie]

If I'm selling something, I will price it as the retail price I paid for the fish as babies. For example, I recently tried to sell adult platinum angelfish for $20 each, as that is what I paid for them as babies @ Aquotix. Unfortunately, the Perth fish hobby is quite stale at the moment (well I think it is, maybe I'm wrong). The saying "it's worth what people are prepared to pay" is not necessarily correct. I think that for nice fronts, Perth hobbyists would be far better off holding on to them.

[Poncho]

Yep sometimes fish can have a perceived worth that is more than what you can expect to sell them for

[chrishaigh82]

I'm lost here... I don't understand who is talking about price for each and who about price for the lot

Retail value of Kigomas that size would be $150-$200 each, maybe $500 for the trio... that is if they are in good conditions and if you're lucky

But since you're a private selling, take 20-30% off that

A good friend of mine got a big colony of Mobas, all adults and one huge one, some WC, and he paid less than $100 each...

 

Thats what he told his wife  

 

[Buccal]

They simply dont sell for this in store. You cannot compare apples to oranges either.
 
 
The FB post is Wild Caught, it is also a rarer version in Perth than the Kigoma, which is all over the place now. I bought from PCS auction 6cm F1 Kigoma fry with beautiful blue fins at $5-8 each and they always go cheap. It is a breeding trio not a full blown colony as per FB.
 
 
You can only look at what is selling here in Perth for the same species over the past year to 6 months, in stores and online and then GUESS an approximate value based on the fact they are private sale. As more of the same fish becomes available and spreads around perth the less value it has the interested parties have bought them already. I am sure most folks would agree with that.
 
If Aquotix had WC Mpimbwe 15-20cm for $245each and they couldnt sell until they lowered the price that says it all. That is full blown retail. Privately you would have to accept that unless a person is very keen you will get significantly less. 

you quoted "as more of the same fish become avaliable and spreads around perth the less interest in parties that have already",,,
I agree,, but that's the past and how it was when the hobby was ticking over well.
Saturation points of species in the market don't begin in Perth anymore, well, not like it use to.

I think reset approach is needed if to many people have fallen to the wrong side.
Most people with experience in the 'total scene', know that most people don't mind paying a little more fish if they are decent, this also helps a lot to strive for quality also
And also knowing well, this that little extra money on a one off up front cost is a lot less lower blow than a breeder having his profit margins compromised on the very already tight situation,, I tell you what, I've really had to economise and invent more to make the comeback to breeding and worthwhile.

It's healthier to promote a system with items of strong structured values,, the diversity in the species being thousands enables us to have plenty of cheap common ones affordable then working your way up to more expensive ones based on breed ability and other factors,,, rather than making everything cheap.

You only need a little a few serious single breeders to each state and you got a Mecca.

It's pretty heart breaking to get serious and spend big coin only to find it's costing you big time on consumable items, electricity, water, food and much time.
It's very amazing how much difference it makes when a breeder can get a extra 50c, $1 or $2 for each fish..