10 replies to this topic

[Fish Antics]

ALL FISH HOBBYISTS - YOU NEED TO KNOW THIS URGENTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last week representatives of the pet industry attended a meeting in Canberra with officials from Department of the Environment & Water & also the Bureau of Rural Sciences. We are advised from this meeting that they intend, effective 7th November, to recategorise ALL of the fish species currently on their "Grey List" as "Noxious".

This would result in all of these fish being illegal to sell or even keep privately, with the sanctions of fines & possible convictions for anyone caught doing so, & the seizing & destroying of the fish.

The full grey list can be viewed on http://www.brs.gov.au/ornamental , but includes amongst others most of the large American cichlids, all arowanas, bichirs, knifefish, stingrays, eels, koi & a number of large catfish & "exotics". In effect almost all large fish kept in the hobby today.

It is also important to stress that this list is not final, & other species can be added later.

If allowed to proceed this legislation will decimate our hobby, & if this is of concern to you we need your help to stop it. One of the major problems is that the Government Departments have mainly consulted wholesalers who are not badly effected by the fish listed, & we need to ensure that they learn just how much opposition is out there to this proposal.

THE ONLY THING THAT WILL STOP THIS OUTRAGE IS IF WE BURY THE DEPARTMENTS & MINISTER IN OBJECTIONS. Hobbyists, retailers & aquarium societies are all banding together to give a unified response to achieve adequate consultation.

Attached please find a pro forma letter that we would urge you sign & email to the parties listed, & preferably also your local member as well. Of course feel free to add your comments or write your own if you prefer.
Please also tell anyone eelse you know & ask them to help - part of the problem is no -one has been warned this was coming, & they have given us so little time to respond.

PLEASE ACT NOW - AFTER 7th NOVEMBER IT WILL BE TOO LATE. Don't leave it to others - we need every voice we can muster, only weight of numbers will make a difference.



Email contacts are:-

Peter.Garrett.MP@aph.gov.au

Tony.Burke.MP@aph.gov.au

nick.gascoigne@environment.gov.au

anthony.moore@brs.gov.au



For the attention of :-

Mr Anthony Burke, Minister DAFF, PO Box 6022, Parliament House, Canberra, 2600
Mr Peter Garrett, Minister DEWHA, PO Box 6022, Parliament House, Canberra,2600
Mr Anthony Moore, Bureau of Rural Science, GPO Box 858 Canberra 2601
Mr Nick Gascoine, Department of Environment, Water, Heritage & the Arts GPO Box 787, Canberra, ACT,2601


Dear Sirs,

Re ; Proposed extension of the Australian & National Noxious Fish List

It has been brought to my attention that your department(s) intend to upgrade all of the fish species currently on the National Grey List to the category of Noxious, & I wish to object & oppose such action.

I am alarmed that this intention was only made known to a few industry representatives last week yet is proposed to be finalised by 7th November. This is clearly inadequate time for all interested parties to be informed & respond, & I preface my objections with a request that any decisions be delayed for sixty days to enable fair & reasonable consultation. I note also that to date that consultation which has occurred has mainly been with parties such as industry wholesalers who are largely unaffected by the proposal, & you need to be made aware of the very large number of retailers, hobbyists & members of aquarium societies who will be adversely affected.

- Unlike the current Noxious list, the proposed extension now includes many widely owned aquarium species, & many of the most prized & valuable in the hobby. Fish such as the American Cichlids, Arowanas, Stingrays,Knifefish, Eels, Bichirs & others form the heart of the collections of most serious aquarists, & are the economic mainstay of many aquarium retailers. Indeed many retailers would struggle to survive this proposal, particularly the specialist retailers who cannot generate sufficient profit if deprived of their most valuable sales. Note also that many hobbyists have tens ( & some hundreds) of thousands of dollars worth of fish in their collections, which value your proposal would wipe out over night.

- Any recategorisation should be on a species by species basis, not a blanket ban, & the "scientific" basis for such action needs to be both reasonable & transparent, & widely consulted rather than just an arbitrary subjective departmental opinion. Many of these species could not survive &/or reproduce in our waterways - due to temperature, water chemistry & predators - & even of those that theoretically could many have been kept as pets here for decades without problem.

- How can one reasonably claim the listed fish are worse than many not targeted, or is the ultimate intention to ban all non-native Australian fish? How can it be that a common goldfish is not banned when it can & does live in our colder & polluted waterways. Taken to it's logical conclusion are we to tell all pet shops in Australia they cannot sell goldfish, & all Australian children that they cannot have a goldfish in a bowl?

- Far from protecting our environment the proposal will have the opposite effect. Regrettably it will spawn a black market just as has occurred with reptiles & birds, & remove any chance of proper regulation. And fish which are today very valuable & unlikely to be released in waterways will become worthless & in the hands of many alienated hobbyists.

Certainly there are species on your list that need attention, but there are many that do not, & thought also needs to be given to alternatives such as registration, micro-chipping & perhaps even sterilization of some other more questionable species. I urge you to take a far more considered & informed approach to this issue.

Yours Faithfully

[Fox]

I have received this today:

Dear Sirs,
This is the 2 letters, that need to be sent out, on your own letterhead to indicate our worries.
Please do this, as I see this as the "Thin edge of the wedge" as it will not stop here & we will ALL soon be selling, all livebearers, tetras etc, if we don’t stop this.

YOU’RE LETTERHEAD HERE

The letters need to be sent to these two people:

Mr. Anthony Moore
Marine Scientist.
Fisheries and Marine Sciences,
Dept of Rural Sciences;
Dept of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry;
G,P.O. Box 858
Canberra. ACT. 2601.

Mr. Nick Gascoigne
Director
Exotic Species Regulation,
Wildlife Branch
Dept of Environment, Water, Heritage and the Arts
G.P.O Box 787
Canberra. A.C.T. 2601

Dear Sir,
I/We have just been informed that a meeting of your Working Group took place in Canberra on 16/10/08 to discuss and declare around 400 species of exotic tropical fish as NOXIOUS, NOXIOUS to us means that they cannot be kept, bred, traded, Or sold anywhere in Australia, all in the name of the precautionary principle among other non-scientific principles. NOXIOUS also means to us that once a fish has been so declared all State Fisheries Departments will have to do something about them, i.e. all such animals shall be confiscated and destroyed, without any form of compensation whatsoever, simply because your collective Group in their "wisdom" deem it so. Well, I/we have some news for you and it is all bad as follows:

1. By declaring all these species as NOXIOUS you are condemning hundreds of thousands of people all over Australia as criminals by "the stroke of a pen" overnight.

2. Declaring these species as NOXIOUS means the owners have to destroy/or have destroyed all the adult breeders and progeny in their possession, and if you mis­guidedly believe this will occur, you are on a different planet. It simply will not happen.

3. Once this becomes law, you and the State Government Departments will have to police it, and right now you cannot prevent smuggled species coming in across the border, let alone employ hundreds of thousands of the necessary Fisheries personnel, with the specific aquaristic knowledge of these species to be able to clearly identify the animals in possession of the aquarist/retailer before confiscation and destruction can take place.

4. A law or regulation like this will force all sales of these fish "UNDERGROUND" not, I/we repeat not, to have them destroyed. Sure, you may prevent sales of fish in Retail shops, but the aquarist and hobby Groups will still trade in and you will be unable to prevent it.

5. Various aquaristic associations will inform you that the unanimous majority of their members who keep, breed, and sell these fish are extremely responsible of the animals in their care, and the necessity for non-release into the environment, simply because they can supplement their current income by breeding and disposing of their progeny to retailers and other like minded members at meeting nights and auctions.

6. By the declaration as NOXIOUS of a greater number of these animals that are being bred, traded, kept and sold Australia wide, and therein not allow their sale or disposal WILL ENSURE the release of such species into the environment, with all the consequences such actions will entail, simply because of your Group's un­thoughtful and unnecessary actions.

7. We believe that a far lesser approach should be adopted to leave these species on the grey/white list to be watched over in case anyone of them should suddenly form a feral population somewhere in Australia. Just because some of them have gone feral elsewhere in the World does not automatically mean it will occur here, and the reason for feral populations elsewhere is because those Countries have free access to these fish, whereas we don't, and people have tended to dump their fish. Here in Australia, we cannot and will probably never be allowed to import these fish, so the ones that are here are now being bred by aquarists for re-sale in the trade, and while this occurs the majority of them will remain in captivity and not be dumped. They will remain so, until and when they should die out over time by natural causes of not being kept and bred, as has occurred with a number of species, eg, Herichthys cyanoguttatum.
Some of these species have been in Australia for 50 to 60 years, particularly some of the cichlid species, and all but a few have entered the environment either accidentally or otherwise, and while they are left on such a list "grey or white" , they will remain in aquarists/retailer hands for the trade to continue to sell them.
If however, they were to become NOXIOUS, YOUR ACTIONS will bring about a dramatic shift in aquarists minds to one of dumping their adults and progeny into the environment, that will do far greater damage to our river systems, than has already occurred with Tilapia species in the North and Cyprinus carpio and Gambusia species have done in the South.

IF THIS IS WHAT YOUR INTENSION'S ARE, THEN YOU ARE HEADED IN THE RIGHT Direction BY DECLARING THESE SPECIES AS NOXIOUS!!

I/we plead with your collective groups of individuals to re-think this strategy, as I/we are sure that your professional expertise would not be able to withstand such a "hit" your "resume", if you still intend to go ahead with this position.l/we are hopeful that this is not the case. The ball is now "in your court" so to speak, and I/we look forward to any comments you may have.

Yours Sincerely.
Your signature here

[keleherr]

are the emails right? i get the message "I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could notbe delivered to one or more recipients"

are the emails right? i get the message "I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could notbe delivered to one or more recipients"

[Fish Antics]

Updated emails

Tony

[Clay]

who in their right mind is going to 'dump' their expensive fish into river systems around the place anyway??

>>> email sent

[Jubey]

I can't find the list. Does it include marine fish as well?

[sorro]

The list can be found in this document

You have to scroll down to page 29


http://www.affashop....sp?prodid=13332


Kevin

[keleherr]

who in their right mind is going to 'dump' their expensive fish into river systems around the place anyway??

>>> email sent

dude not all fish are expensive some include
Amphilophus labiatus
Cichla spp
Caquetaia umbrifera
Parachromis managuensis
Petenia splendida

Amphilophus labiatus you can get for like $3 so im sure people would let them go rather then kill them when they find out there no supposed to have them. i noticed C. nigrofasciatum isnt on either list, it has already established feral populations around Australia and is as common as sand at the beach.
Also as stated they shouldnt ban groups on a whole but look at individual species. As many have been here for years without a problem.

[Poncho]

First off I agree that the proposed regulations are really short-sighted, will not address the issue and should be opposed. It's a real shame as I think a well regulated industry is needed and would provide a better situation for hobbyists in the long run.

I will be writing a letter to those listed to give my opinion also. In reference to the letter sent to Az, I would like to suggest that threats of intentional release of fish into waterways are not likely to get the intended response by those on the committee. Rather I think it will strengthen their misguided resolve and make them consider tougher regulations and stricter enforcing of them. Please don't release fish into waterways to spite these people - it will only make matters worse for everyone!

Anyone who thinks that their letter won't make a difference should look into the failed EPP wetlands (Swan Coastal Plain) legislation. It was thought to be a formality until a huge uproar from affected landowners in 2005-6 pressured the minister enough to can the whole thing very close to the last minute. A mistake in my opinion but proof that enough voices will make a difference!

[ZOLTAN]

What a joke, they now want to bring this into action, so gee i wonder if they are going to setup a law forbidding people to having and owning cats, dogs and birds due to them getting out into the wild and causing havoc on the australian eco system, oh wait they already have manage to do that and they have done nothing about it.

[Cicolid]

This thread will now be locked.

Please reply to this topic under the thread on "Cichlid Discussion".

Thank you.