41 replies to this topic

[slink]

Wow I see a lot of wrong evidence in this thread. I will expand when I am in front of a computer maybe we should stop reading the news websites because most of the information they give is also incorrect. As part of the emergency services hearing or seeing a thread like this is a day to day thing but remember we will be there next time you need us so support us as to the family and the officer it has effected everyone involved and my wishes goes out to them all.

[Kleinz]

With all respect: To conflate questioning the actions of a single policeman with an attack on the emergency services in general is a mistake. One is not the other.

[Shane-o88]

In court it should of went something like "were you in control of the vehicle that crashed into another vehicle causing death to an innocent person".... The answer is yes the cop was in the wrong, he was at fault.

How do you get not guilty from that???

[Leigh]

.....think of how stupid the average person is, and then remember half of them are even dumber than that.

 

This thread would suggest the number closer to about 70%.......

 

 

if the police officer didnt do his job and ignored the stolen car then the lady would be alive... TRUE... but we'd be asking questions why the stolen car was not pursued and apprehended... TRUE... 

 

so give me good reason why the person who stole the vehicle shouldnt be held accountable for this lady's loss of life ???

 

Two great point Johnno, you are part of the 30%.

[slink]

How is this thread not an attack on the emergency services kleinz? All you are doing is pointing out one person in one service. We all drive under emergency situations and come across perth drivers on a daily basis we all work together in a emergency situation.

[Kleinz]

I don't think the emergency services are attacked anywhere in this thread.  The police officer in question certainly.  It was not the emergency services who were on trial, but a lone individual who drove without care.

 

I don't see how you can construe that as an attack on all emergency services. It explicitly is not.

[slink]

Where does it say he drove without care? He was found not guilty right? I would have to agree with johnno if he did nothing the keyboard warriors on here would complain as well

Edit:

[bigjohnnofish]

if the copper had of died in this crash and not the lady... we would be commemorating his loss of life in the line of duty.... TRUE.... 

the copper had no intention of killing anybody and was only doing his job... whether or not he was giving 100% to the chase or he was trying to give 110% to the chase he shouldnt be convicted of murder.... or even manslaughter..... it was an accident... thats why they are called accidents as no-one was trying to crash into other vehicles...

 

there are gun ho coppers who operate outside the law to catch crims... but at the end of the day they need to bend the rules to get results sometimes... as we all know how stupid our laws can be at times... 

 

the guy breaking the law stealing the car is fully responsible for anything happening because of his actions.... in my opinion he forfeits any rights and should be punished appropriately... 

[tastyfish1980]

An update to this thread, or whatever you want to call it. The constable, cleared of any offence in the courts (this jury is out on that) has resigned from the police......is it service or force? He did so last week and the Commish has accepted it. This was before he was about to go through the internal investigation. Draw your own conclusion to this, but I suggest he jumped before he was pushed. It was revealed in yesterday`s West Aust. Also revealed was the (unfortunate) fact he was a passenger in another death pursuit and obviously did not have any responsibility with that death. I personally think it was a very regrettable (crash) and that it should never have happened, both by the police, in this particular car and that the instigator, the thief, with no respect for anyone else, gets a, pretty much, a free pass.

[AXIS]

I drive though that intersection a lot, and its a long intersection with a lot of traffic, and multiple red lights nearby, and some weird road bends too.

 

Any kind of running those lights is extremely dangerous.

 

 

The days of pursuits being necessary should be far behind us. A chopper is worth the expense for the danger it saves a million times over.

 

I'd rather the thief got away with the car than the officer killing someone, They said they "saw a car coming, but believed it was going to stop".

 

That assumption ruined a family, they should be trained to not got  through red lights unless the way is clear, not believe its going to be clear. If that caution lets the thief get away, so be it, and then the blame is on the pollies to not pony up for the chopper.

[Shane-o88]

^^ my point exactly!! Worded much better..

[malawiman85]

Police procedure allows police to proceed through red lights. The law allows it. Officer was doing his job. Not guilty.

 

However the procedure is in dire need of change as is the law to prevent this from happening time and time again.

We need to be innovative in how we combat crime. There are some good examples already mentioned by others. Personally I believe the officer should be prosecuted by WorkSafe for NOT taking due care in HIS workplace.

 

Does anyone remember when a man (Ward) died in transit from a remote community to Kalgoorlie a few years ago? The security company G4S, Department of Correctional Services and the two guards Nina Stokoe and Graham Powell were cleared of criminal charges much to the surprise of many, but then successfully prosecuted and fined by WorkSafe WA. 

References:

Stokoe Prosecution Summary: http://prosecutions....tions/view/1351

Powell Prosecution Summary: http://prosecutions....tions/view/1350

G4S Prosecution Summary: http://prosecutions....tions/view/1349

DCS Prosecution Summary: http://prosecutions....tions/view/1348

[Shane-o88]

Like I say, if I kill someone doing my job I'd go to jail more thank likely. Wonder if the police oc health and safety laws are as strict as mines site oc health and safety??

[malawiman85]

They are subject to the Occupational Safety and Health Act 1984 (WA). same as the security guys and same as most of us. Mine Sites and a few others excepted.

The section of the Act he could be considered in breach of is almost word for word the same as the equivilent section of the Mines Safety and Inspection Act 1994 (WA).

[Shane-o88]

The facts is that at work or not, killing an innocent law abiding citizen is not at all good and I can't see a reason why charges shouldn't be laid.

[Shane-o88]

Is there no such thing as equal rights, everyone should be treated the same???? No, turns out there is different laws for different people and it all comes down to how much cash you have and what your occupation is!!

[Pat]

Someone said a little earlier that you had to be in the court room to get the full feel for the case. That is true. Additionally, criminal charges require a higer burden of proof (beyond reasonable doubt) than internal investigations (balance of probablities.)

 

This is possibly why the police officer in question resigned, perhaps knowing that he might not survive scrutiny at the lower burden of proof WAPOL Internals need for a "conviction." It's also possible he was too devastated and/or disillusioned to continue in that line of work. Individuals can be found "not guilty" in a criminal court, where charges are not proven beyond reasonable doubt but they can still be found culpable in a civil court or an internal investigation.

 

Anyone who has spent a bit of time in a criminal court knows that "beyond reasonable doubt" is a very high burden of proof for the prosecution to attain and it can be quite a complex concept for ANY jury of lay people to apply confidently. Often people can be amazed at "not guilty" verdicts but unless you are there and listening to the Judges directions to the jury, rules of evidence, cross examination etc it doesn't seem to make sense. I guess that's why they say "not guilty" as opposed to "innocent." Believe me, if you were falsely accused or had some crappy charges pressed you would be very happy with the system we have!

 

I'll also add that I have been very close to some incidents that have been reported in the media. The level of inaccuracy, sensationalism and political bias displayed, particularly in our daily rag, is frightening to be honest. So much so that when I consume any form of media I always tell myself that there may be more to the story. In my experience there normally are inaccuracies due to sensationalism, bias or simple incompetency.

 

I have much more confidence in our judicial system and law enforcement than I do in our media....

 

BJF. Before you get too excited. This does NOT mean I believe that media bias, corruption and incompetency exists to the level that you do!! But it is there.

Edited by Pat, 12 December 2013 - 12:08 AM.

[Shane-o88]

Yeah I love the justice system mate, especially when the charged me and my mate for being out in the bush trying to catch fish out of the creek and just trying to stay out of trouble away from everyone. Yeah it is a great system, I get charged for trying to catch a fish in Australia and I'm Australian.

[werdna]

Because you didn't have a freshwater angling license?

[Shane-o88]

Being part indigenous I don't need a fishing liscence at all.