Nitrate Reduction (56k Warning)
#1
Posted 23 April 2008 - 11:09 PM
http://joejaworski.w...11/12/nitrates/
http://joejaworski.w...ow-up-nitrates/
I wasn't sure if this should go into the article section or not, mods feel free to move this.
Has anyone used the sulfur method or the aquamedic? Would be interested in experiences with these.
#2
Posted 24 April 2008 - 12:56 PM
jack
#3
Posted 24 April 2008 - 05:18 PM
I'm looking at reducing my waterchanges for one of my tanks to maybe once every 4-6 weeks or so rather than weekly. It's just getting a bit much, takes me all afternoon to do all the tanks properly.
#4
Posted 24 April 2008 - 05:29 PM
it took about a month to become fully snotted iv had it now for about7-8 weeks i think
#5
Posted 25 April 2008 - 03:19 PM
First hand, they work great!
#6
Posted 25 April 2008 - 04:39 PM
I think I will purchase a unit and see how it goes on my 6x2x18. It's the hardest to change the water cause I have to use a pump (it's too close to the floor to get the physics working for me).
#7
Posted 27 April 2008 - 09:49 AM
Personally I see high nitrates as an indication that the system is not coping with the bio-load, and the only effective strategy is water changes.
Cheers
Brett
#8
Posted 27 April 2008 - 02:39 PM
#9
Posted 27 April 2008 - 02:42 PM
Brett, I wouldn't say that high nitrates are an indicator of the system not coping. Nitrate will accumulate as it's a waste product that, unless your tank is heavily planted, is not broken down. So every tank will eventually have high nitrates, UNLESS you change the water or use a nitrate reductor. I would agree that if, for example, you do weekly waterchanges and your nitrates are still high, it's a sign that there is a lot of waste being produced in your tank. It's also a sign that your system is working and breaking down ammonia and nitrite! So in that respect it's a good indicator.
With this nitrate reductor I'm not looking at replacing waterchanges. I simply want to reduce the frequency of my waterchanges. I was also told that this particular unit can also provide an environment for bacteria that brake down other byproducts, so its use is not limited to just nitrate. I will provide some feedback on this unit after it's been running a couple of months.
#10
Posted 27 April 2008 - 05:45 PM
Hi Cawdor,
While not saying that the facultative anaerobes , that are relied on to reduce nitrates, will not break down other "byproducts" of fish metabolism, I will say that they tend to produce more of their own as a result of the metabolic changes engendered in the switch from aerobic to anaerobic function . Bear in mind that bacteria that are normally aerobes, or at best microaerophilic, require additional dissolved organic carbon sources to be added to the aquarium if they are to function as promised by the manufacturers of denitrating systems. It is quite difficult to adequately determine the optimum requirements of these organisms, and as a result you can either effectively further pollute the aquarium, or just wind up with another useless "system" within the aquarium.
I played around with bio-denitrators for several years before deciding that a reasonably deep substrate layer performed the funtionality I desired without introducing the complications necessary to ensure their efficient functioning.
If you decide to use the unit, and "provide feedback", please ensure that you mention any inexplicable events that occur during the use of the unit.
Cheers, Syd.
#11
Posted 27 April 2008 - 05:59 PM
This is taken care of by special balls that reside within the unit and brake down over time, providing the carbon sources for the bacteria. There are also additional tablets that can be dissolved in water and fed into the system if required. The manufacturer has actually included information about how it works as well as some basic chemistry information in the manual, which was a positive surprise. usually you just get "this is how you assemble it and this is how you clean it" in the manual.
I plan on doing that. The tank that the unit is connected to is very stable and "predictable", so any unusual readings or occurences will be noted.
#12
Posted 03 May 2008 - 06:25 PM
Coincidentally I tested my nitrates today and they were at 20ppm, usually after 2 weeks after a waterchange I have about 40ppm in that tank. I want to believe it's already making a difference but it's probably just coincidence.
Fish are happy and breeding, so it's no difference to their well-being.
#13
Posted 04 June 2008 - 03:37 PM
Maintenance on the unit itself is non-existant - there's nothing to do except let it run. Once the white balls are used up, which I'm told can be anywhere from within a year to about 2 years, it's simply a matter of placing new white balls in there.
Some photos:
Water inflow control: Eheim pump connected to the t-junction (supplied with the unit) and a valve at the end to control pressure. Nothing fancy but it works.
The outlet: drops and gas are expelled here. Drops are easy to see and count.
Main unit: the white balls are the food for the bacteria, the black ones just provide surface area to grow.
Close-up: slimy goodness. The more the better! Also visible are the bubbles of gas.
#14
Posted 04 June 2008 - 10:42 PM
Glad you are happy with the outcome Tim, they are definately worth the investment.
And as you stated, they are not a replacement for water changes but just a tool to keep your nitrates at an acceptable level in between cleans or to give you just a couple more weeks in between water changes.
#15
Posted 05 June 2008 - 08:41 AM
How much did it cost u to set up? Ongoing costs?
Dazza
#16
Posted 05 June 2008 - 04:58 PM
Ongoing costs are just electricity and once the white balls are used up, you gotta replace them. I read they last anywhere from 1 year to 2 years. I haven't looked into replacement costs for these, they are called "Deni Balls" if you wanna google them.
#17
Posted 05 June 2008 - 09:12 PM
#18
Posted 05 June 2008 - 09:21 PM
You misunderstand how the whole thing works. Nitrates are not trapped in there, they are broken down by bacteria who use the oxygen molecule in nitrate for their metabolism. The white balls act as a food source and diminish over time. If a situation arises where the white balls are completely gone and you do nothing about it and just let it run, the bacteria would die off and it would just be another waterpump connected to your tank. No negative effects at all.
#19
Posted 06 June 2008 - 08:45 AM
#20
Posted 06 June 2008 - 08:47 AM
However, from my perspective, the most important information has been omitted. That is the health and growth of the fish.
The impression this post gives, and I am not blaming Tim for this, is that if you lower nitrates sufficiently you can reduce or even cease water changes without reducing the health of your fish. I am not convinced this is the case. Nitrates are products of metabolism, that we can measure. So there is a tendency to rely on them and not consider the many other products of metabolism that we can't measure (or see).
In my previous post I said, "high nitrates are an indication that the system is not coping", this was misinterpreted by some, who thought I meant the filter was not coping. What I meant was the system, that waste products were building up faster than they were being removed. The vast majority of us keep systems that don't cope with the bioload, we forget that this is not the norm. In a bigger system, with a lower bioload, the waste would be broken down as quickly as it was produced, there would be NO build up of nitrates.
I guess this is just a long winded way of saying I think you should concentrate on water changes and not nitrate reduction. If you are going to buy extra equipment, it is my belief that your money would be better spent on a more efficient water changing system.
Cheers
Brett
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