What L144's Really Are
#21
Posted 18 November 2016 - 05:36 AM
Just brainstorming on the genetics side of things.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
#23
Posted 19 November 2016 - 07:35 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
#24
Posted 19 November 2016 - 07:35 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
#25
Posted 20 November 2016 - 01:44 AM
and calico genes are quite strong - almost on par with commons... albino and leucistic which are weaker genes... well IMO anyway....
breed a common with albino - get no albinos generally
breed a common with calico - get up to 50/50 common / calico... very rarely more calico than common...
- Hood likes this
#26
Posted 21 November 2016 - 05:29 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
#27
Posted 22 November 2016 - 05:08 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
#28
Posted 23 November 2016 - 12:17 AM
i dont have the answer for that... only a theory that perhaps the spots you refer to are the same colour as the fish..... i have some albinos with almost no spotting... just a few faint outlines.... not familiar with leucism in other fish - cichlids generally dont interest me unless they are surrendered to become rtc poop....
#29
Posted 23 November 2016 - 05:06 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
#30
Posted 24 November 2016 - 01:11 AM
had a good look today at albinos and lemons - both same as for patterning and spots,,, they are there just you have to look harder... more prevalent in adults.... obviously different albino lines as some have more noticeable spots than others... some lines very yellow without any colour food.... and some very white....
get colour variations in commons depending on their environment and food and water parameters in the same blood line... more than likely its the same with albinos and lemons...
- Hood likes this
#31
Posted 24 November 2016 - 06:22 AM
Edited by Hood, 24 November 2016 - 06:32 AM.
#32
Posted 25 November 2016 - 12:21 AM
nah it didnt happen - i know where the original fish come from.... secret squirrel
my lemon b/n have patterning - you just have to look harder when they are adults... 9-10cm and the spotted pattern is there....
i have had albino fry and lemon fry growing up in same tank and the only distinguishing feature is their eyes....
you'll notice the sash of lighter colour on their tails - same as other bristlenose.... more prevalent on the long fins....
Edited by bigjohnnofish, 25 November 2016 - 12:26 AM.
#33
Posted 25 November 2016 - 07:19 AM
Yeah looking at my lemon breeders. Definitely no patterning on mine. No sash on the tail or anything. Maybe mine are different to yours?
I'll see if I can get a picture when the big fellas out of his cave.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
#34
Posted 26 November 2016 - 01:06 AM
the chances of leucistic fish appearing from normal breeding stock is approx 1 in a 100,000.... although that ratio has been significantly reduced over the years with different chemicals present in aquarium water having effect on the mutation of genes....
so the possibility of getting one leucistic bn is prob like winning the lottery.... but to have 2 leucistic bn and they turned out to be male and female and survive and breed is quite an amazing feat on its own.... from the original fish have spawned many leucistic fry which have travelled far and wide and once demanded $500 for a single 3-4cm fry to todays price of about $10....
theres nothing stopping someone else from putting an albino bn over lemon bn and im sure this would alter some genetic makeup and will explain any slight differences you may have,,, you may not even have pure lemons anymore lol
leucism is responsible for quite a varying effect on skin colour of animals so i see no difference in fish....
#35
Posted 27 November 2016 - 01:02 AM
Edited by Hood, 27 November 2016 - 01:03 AM.
#36
Posted 28 November 2016 - 12:09 AM
are you assuming leucism to be a dominant allele or recessive alleles... has been documented that both exist....
so do you think your lemons are homozygous or heterozygous....
the basic rules of genetics to predict outcomes of b/n spawns really doesnt apply.... very random and depends a lot of the gamates at the time of conception...
in simple terms female has for example 100 fertile eggs... male will be producing far more sperm to fertilize and produce zygotes (fertilized eggs)....
so this male may produce 1000 sperm for example.... this male may carry some form of leucism - lets say 25% for arguments sake so there will be 750 common alleled sperm with its characteristic alleles and 250 sperm with leucistic alleles.... out of 1000 sperm its totally random how many actually fertilize the 100 eggs... its quite possible that the zygotes formed contain no leucistic alleles from the male bristlenose... or only a few or 50/50 or 100%..... it all depends on which taddies swim the fastest.....
i hope i put that in as easy to understand terms so you get it... and dont waste the rest of your days trying to predict fry outcomes of bristlenose
- Hood likes this
#37
Posted 28 November 2016 - 06:03 AM
Like I said before I thankyou for your time and advise. I just do not like being told the old 'trust me, I know who made them and how they were made' and then not much else that is confirmed info wise.
I understand that this is just often the case when it comes to fish...but it doesn't mean I still don't like to ponder as to just what/how they came about.
Thank you again, I do love a good theoretical debate on genetics. I hope you have a good day Johnno. It's been too many years since our last face to face. What has it been, like 6 years now?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
#38
Posted 24 January 2018 - 06:25 AM
I know this is an old topic but wanted to ask where red/orange fit into this?
What price would they be?
And yes they do come from commons.
Not sure if they would be the same as what is sold overseas as super reds
#39
Posted 28 January 2018 - 02:40 AM
depending on their origin.... a line has been bred from calico/marbles.... another line said to have come from albinos... for all we know could be a complete gene mutation from a common.... but unlikely.... been talk suggesting chemicals have been added to water while fish are breeding to induce gene mutations..
#40
Posted 28 January 2018 - 05:33 AM
These used to throw orange marbles as well, but was told they have been bred out, will see when they breed for me.
One female is trying to get in a cave with a male but nothing yet. Couple of pics
another
one of the marbles these produced early
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users