114 replies to this topic

[Hydonia]

Den,

The reason why we were not notified of this decision ( correct me if I am wrong Tony), but this decision was made about two years ago, and given July 23rd of this year.

As for the serious response for the PCS, this is up to individual members ( myself included ) to contact the relevant people with letters of protests. MANY letters of protests. It will be too late to save those fish already on the list, but we can make it a hell of a lot harder to do this kind of crap to us in the future!

[Den]

As for the serious response for the PCS, this is up to individual members ( myself included ) to contact the relevant people with letters of protests.

When Norm Halliwell was thrown out of the OMG money wasters committee Tony provided an explanation and drafted a letter for members to send to the relevant minister, I sent a letter in support of Norm and I did receive an official response from the ministers office.

Does the committee plan to organise something similar in order to support Terry and the other hobbiests keeping this beautiful fish?

Cheers
Den

[Terry]

The Committee is working with Fisheries to try to sort out this whole issue, you are aware that I am also on the Committee so it's a bit difficult. The Committee will issue a statment soon, also watch for Tony's posts which will probably be in Announcments. My argument for the Oreochromis will continue but be aware that I am also involved with the drafting of statements and PCS policy.

Also remember that this is about all the fish on the grey list not just Oreochromis.

Cheers Terry

[PCS_Committee]

The PCS is disappointed with the addition of 61 species, including Oreochromis tanganicae, to the noxious list. We are also opposed to the criminalisation associated with the possession of these species and the consequences of such a drastic change in law. It makes criminals out of responsible hobbyists who have legally obtained and kept these fish for many years and forces people to destroy their pets or otherwise dispose of them, in order to avoid being charged. The latter is exactly the scenario we need to avoid and why the list exists in the first place - to stop exotic fish from escaping captivity and potentially harming Australian native species.

The PCS would welcome the presentation of independent scientific data on the impact of a particular exotic fish species on Australian native fauna as grounds for any future additions to the noxious list.

[Den]

OK thanks for clarifying Terry, I feel a little better knowing something is being done.

Committee if you need letters written to any minister in support of your aims please provide us some guidance.

Cheers
Den

[Terry]

An adult male Oreochromis tanganicae will be on display at Pet Magic 1500 Albany Hwy Cannington until 22 July.
That is if WA Fisheries don't remove it.

Cheers Terry

[Hydonia]

Den,

If you feel that this issue should be acted upon, then by all means please write up a letter and send it to the people's names that have been posted here I already have.

Personally I strongly encourage all members to do this.

[Den]

Am I missing something? to me it seems nothing is being co-ordinate or guide the club members behind some form of action? Im sure there are alot of members like me who want to do something to help.

Sure I can write a letter no problem, but I was hoping to see a draft containing the official position of the club that could help those members who dont have the time or the writing skills to organise their letters.

Let me know if you want me to write a draft letter, but my preference would be if one of the talented committee members put something together that encompases the position of the club and with prefferably some input from Terry as he has all the first hand knowledge of this entire terrible experience.

I now see being a club member as a possible liability, we post up pics of our fish here and all the info we have about them, we and our fish become known, the club has our contact details, and if one of our fish becomes noxious its seems we cant expect much to be done, and we leave a trail here to make it easy for fisheries to come kill our pets and make us into criminals.

Cheers
Den

[giz]

I posted about 12- 18 months ago about a friend of mine who got busted and they confiscated dimi comps and euthanased them because they have never been an allowable import. Never mind the fact that these fish were and have been in the country prior to 1980 and still are sold in the shops. Then a couple of weeks later dished out a license to a certain person to be legally allowed to breed them. What the???? This has been coming for a long long time. Does this mean that we will not be allowed to keep bristle nose and many others that have never been an allowable import??? Anything listed that isnt on the schedule 6 (allowable imports) list is ILLEGAL to keep.

[Fish Antics]

As mentioned in my previous post, these fish have been passed by OFMIG over two years ago as species not in the country and of no interest to hobby or industry. This was with consultation of the Industry/Hobby representatives at that time. Since that time some of those species have become available. These fish have been listed to be made noxious for the past two years with no submissions from the public or industry. The law has been passed and will come into effect from July 23. The only option for these listed species at this late stage is the ministerial exemption POST.
This hobby has always suffered from apathy(waiting to see what happen's) and in fighting. This should be a reminder to get involved in the process and make sure that the government knows what we want. Which is to be able to keep, breed and sell the species of fish we want. We have to be responsible and accountable which most hobbiests are and develop a risk management plan to lower the risk of release of high risk species to a minimum. Education will have to be a priority.
I am looking at setting up a hobbyist group to form a communication network. This will act like a petition and a quick responce network to get information out there and to call for letters. The main aim is to gain some political clout. A group of a few thousand members willing to make their opinion heard may have a better effect than a disjointed mass.

Tony

[Den]

I am looking at setting up a hobbyist group to form a communication network.

I would be happy to volunteer.

Tony if this law has been so well publicised then how did a committee member of the PCS get caught in this situation?

and do you not think that a few thousand letters to the minister in support of Terry and other keepers of this species will help ensure the answer is yes to their applications for a ministerial exemption? if so then please provide some clear guidance as to what you want members to do.

Cheers
Den

[Hydonia]

Den why are you so hooked on the PCS telling you what to do?

For your refrence, the post by the PCS committee account is the only post you are likely to get on this matter. All of the people on this site are grown ups and can make up their own mind to supprt or not, it is their decision. We will be making personal reccomendations only. As for letters, please write your own, as this issue is too important to use a form letter.

For me it is simple, do you want to help protect our hobby if the answer is yes, then please write.

[Fish Antics]

I believe what Den and Terry are looking for is a united and co-ordinated approach to combat the possibility of loosing the fish they have kept for all these years, plus the likelihood that we could potentially loose some of those that we would love to keep that have not found their way to our shores yet.
I am all in favour of all hobbiests getting involved in the decision making. The Process is in place, We just need to be more active and vocal in what we want to see. This needs to be constructive and co-operative with Fisheries as we all have a responsibility to protect our own environment and natural species from any accidental or intentional release of exotic species. At the end of the day realise that the final decision is a political one and we need to be in a position to influence that decision.

Tony

[Terry]

Den
I got caught in this situation because we were told that OMG were doing studies and talking with Government Departments and Industry leaders and that we would be kept informed of the outcome and that the findings would be then put up for public comment. So I did as we were told, I waited for 4 years and my public comment is the first thread in this post. Do not wait for decisions to be made on the grey list. Everybody should make a comment now, I don't see the value in mass produced letters/emails, the recipient will regard it as just another one of them. Each person should write their own, even a one liner would get the message across all we need is numbers.

Cheers Terry

[Den]

Den why are you so hooked on the PCS telling you what to do?

An official request made by the club to its members and the purpose/reasons behind the desired group action together with the goal is required to motivate most people into action.

If a front page banner and link with info can be organised for a photo comp, surely the same could be done to bring this situation clearly to everyones attention. Most people wont have time to read all of this discussion and pick out the details, or the information to write an informed letter, what members need is information and guidance and it has to be made in a neater package by the committee if you want to maximize participation.

Reading Terry's post it seems this law and the proceedure was not so well explained or publicised as claimed by various committee members and the linktohell, and there is a second reason for this, if it was well publicised then why also were aquarium stores still selling this fish species right up until the final announcement? I know of at least 2 WA stores that were selling this species until very recently.

If the club wants to maximise the number of informed letters written to the relevant minister my suggestions are;

1. Front page Banner as used for photo comps with a link to a fresh clean thread.

2. New thread/post that contains the following;
a. Brief outline of this situation encompassing the fact Terry may have to kill his fish and the official position of the club
b. Info on how this law got through 2 years ago while fish keepers, the PCS committee and fish stores seemed completely unaware.
c. Info on how this law was passed without any proper study.
d. A drafted letter which asks the law be postponed until the fish is properly studied, or at very least a ministerial exemption be granted to all the current keepers.
e. The contact details of the minister to send the letter to.

What is the committee going to do when a more popular fish ends up on the list? this is a chance at least to put something into practice.

The present appearance of the club seems disfunctional.

Cheers
Den

[Den]

I just wanted to point out how poorly informed we are as a club and industry by the Government, Im not having a go at the club, this is a go at the Goverment.

Here this pending noxious species Oreochromis Tanganicae was for sale in the PCS classifieds by aquarium shops selling it to PCS members as recently as 1st July this month!

No one on the PCS committee or anyone in the retail industry seemed be aware of this "2 year old decision??" and the impending law to make the Oreochromis Tanganicae noxious on the 23rd July.

http://www.perthcich...omis tanganicae

http://www.perthcich...omis tanganicae

Ensuring the public is informed means the law makers must make the approach directly to those their laws will effect, putting a post up on a website somewhere is not good enough, if they consider this as informing people, then we could make the arguement that when Blackbeard made a map to his treasure his intention was to inform everyone.

Cheers
Den

[Den]

I believe there could be breaches in the Australian constitution in regards to the way in which these new additions have been added to the noxious list and I will be pursuing legal advice in the very near future on this matter. I base my claim on the fact that the local industry(LFS) were not properly informed as they continued to sell these fish pending to be noxious to members of the public almost 2 years after this new noxious act was proposed, the stores were still selling them obviously because no letter from fisheries had been written to the fish stores to inform them of the new law.

How many people have purchased this fish from stores with no idea of the situation in the past 2 years? There could be hundreds of people with no idea that they are now committing a criminal offence after the 23rd July. This in my opinion is at least a form of entrapment.

If fisheries wish to make a fish noxious, its is obvious that they should make in writing and inform aquarium shops directly immediately and make a public information campaign.

This law is unjust and when all its flaws are exposed it will be overturned.

Cheers
Den

[Sarg]

Here is a link with some info in it. The ace link has a letter that can be forwarded on, not that it helps much.

http://www.qldaf.com...hp?f=18&t=28759

[Terry]

Greg Thompson from Community News will be talking about the Oreochromis on 6PR radio today at 9.30am.

Cheers Terry.

[SynoAngel]

Terry,

I'm very sorry about your delima, and hope for an adequate and reasonable decision to be made.

To the users of this forum,

Just a quick note that I have sent an email to Tim Nicholas in Minister Moores office, and also spoken to him about the issue. I'm very suprised that according to Tim, that my email is the only one that has been recieved by that office? Stage 1 is set in stone, and the legislation does not allow for exemptions, but should we want to be included in future consultation we must make a point of it now, and email/call the people in these positions. Tony has a foot in the door with fisheries so that will help us while the members of this club continue to push the issue.

Bill Barsly(?) Fisheries - 9482 7385
Tim Nicholas - 9422 3000

If we dont stand up now, then dont complain about it when Stage 2 makes your fish Noxiously listed!

Daniel