33 replies to this topic

[Paddy]

Everyone has nitrates, there has to be in order for the bacteria that gets rid of them to be there.. But nowhere near 20ppm.

I understand your logic in the ease and cost side of things for a Fish Only Tank but in my experience with marines it is very hard to stay away from all those corals.

If you are going to run a cheap and easy to maintain setup I would suggest staying with FW Tanks, Marines are not rocket science but they are more time and energy consuming in general. *puts on flame-suit*

[Iamsam]

Everyone has nitrates, there has to be in order for the bacteria that gets rid of them to be there.. But nowhere near 20ppm.

i understand that, but are you going to try and convince me that there is a problem with 20ppm nitrate in a fish only tank?

I understand your logic in the ease and cost side of things for a Fish Only Tank but in my experience with marines it is very hard to stay away from all those corals.

a little self control goes a long way, even if he did weaken and bought corals, i would not be worried about the nitrates harming them, i would be more worried about the amount of light the are getting, mind you, morphs will survive under low light and with very high nitrartes, so i guess they would work anyway

If you are going to run a cheap and easy to maintain setup I would suggest staying with FW Tanks, Marines are not rocket science but they are more time and energy consuming in general. *puts on flame-suit*

i hope that that flame suit is very strong, becouse how on earth is a basic marine tank as i prevously suggest, much more time and energy cunsuming than freshwater , only things that may consume extra time, is having to frequantly keep water toped up to prevent salinty swings, and mixing saltwater for water changes.
say 2 minutes a day to top up water
and say a max of 1 hour a fortnight for water changes,
im sure most people spend that much time work on there freshwater tanks anyway!

[Paddy]

i understand that, but are you going to try and convince me that there is a problem with 20ppm nitrate in a fish only tank?



a little self control goes a long way, even if he did weaken and bought corals, i would not be worried about the nitrates harming them, i would be more worried about the amount of light the are getting, mind you, morphs will survive under low light and with very high nitrartes, so i guess they would work anyway



i hope that that flame suit is very strong, becouse how on earth is a basic marine tank as i prevously suggest, much more time and energy cunsuming than freshwater , only things that may consume extra time, is having to frequantly keep water toped up to prevent salinty swings, and mixing saltwater for water changes.
say 2 minutes a day to top up water
and say a max of 1 hour a fortnight for water changes,
im sure most people spend that much time work on there freshwater tanks anyway!

I love people who disect forum posts, I think they do it because they are unable to form an argument around the whole post so pick out points. You assume I am trying to convince you that 20ppm in a FO tank is a problem because of my first sentence, but if you went allllllllll the way to my second sentence you see that I said, I understand your logic in a Fish Only Tank... Again disect at will.. I wouldnt class "what you previously described" as a full reef tank, its a FO tank.. I was referring to the fact that I see very very few FO marine tanks and that with the addition of corals and extra equipment and setup the maintenance also increases.

Thread is way off topic and the original poster doesn't seem to be around so more wasted bandwidth...

[Iamsam]

I love people who disect forum posts,

so do i

I think they do it because they are unable to form an argument around the whole post so pick out points.

yep! thats exactly why i did it, i couldnt come up with an argument that dealt with everythign you mentioned, so i just picked out the main points you made and dealt with them in a simple and logical manner, hold on a minute, didn't that still form an argument around the whole post!?!?!?

You assume I am trying to convince you that 20ppm in a FO tank is a problem because of my first sentence, but if you went allllllllll the way to my second sentence you see that I said, I understand your logic in a Fish Only Tank...

great so where on the same page than, that 20ppm of nitrate in a fish only tank is no problem???

I wouldnt class "what you previously described" as a full reef tank, its a FO tank

couldnt agree more, that's what the poster was asking about in the first place, a fish only tank, and that is what the discussion is about

I was referring to the fact that I see very very few FO marine tanks and that with the addition of corals and extra equipment and setup the maintenance also increases.

so you are baseing your whole argument around the fact, that this man has no self control and will not be able to stick with a fish only tank and will go to a reef tank? and that he will think that he dosent have to upgrade or change anything? im sure if he were to upgrade to a reef system he would ask the question as he has done in this thread, and than you can tell him to invest in a skimmer etc.

Thread is way off topic and the original poster doesn't seem to be around so more wasted bandwidth...

I wouldn't say that it is off topic at all, who cares if the OP isnt around, why cant we use his thread to enlighten everybody, somebody else may learn something from this thread, hell you or i may even learn something.

I love people who disect forum posts

and thats about it, i just like the disecting really!

[Tucunare]

i think 20 ppm is a problem if your a fish. not a major problem but none the less still a problem. and yes sam i have nitrates in a few tanks, all of which look half as good as the ones where its nearly undictecable, but thats a whole other thread.
my main point to this is start off on the right foot and youll always be ahead, start off on the back foot and youll be forever trying to catch up. and i agree with paddy, how many fish only tanks - excluding preds have you honestly seen in comparison to fish/coral tanks?. i dont think its about self control i think its about having something your proud of. coral tanks look far better than fo tank any day of the week so it natural for anyone to want to go that way.
im not having a go at you sam either im just stating that in my experience cannisters on marines work best with alterations to the media or simply left as flow throughs. the less dead spots you can create the more chance your nitrates will be low and things like internal stress to fish and algae arent going to become issues

[notsomot]

Hey Treksider,
If you havnt got the filter yet you should look into the marisys 240. I just converted one of my 4 foot tanks and Marisys seems to be going well and they have had a massive price drop

But if you have a cannister laying around just as good

[Iamsam]

i think 20 ppm is a problem if your a fish. not a major problem but none the less still a problem.

and what would make you think that? i think that you will have no real problems until your nitrate starts to creep above 40ppm, what do i base that on i hear you ask, just my previous experience. and why would FW fish accept a much higher nitrate reading than SW fish?

a few tanks, all of which look half as good as the ones where its nearly undictecable, but thats a whole other thread.

.
my main point to this is start off on the right foot and youll always be ahead, start off on the back foot and youll be forever trying to catch up.

but he is starting on the right foot, he's setting up a fish only tank with the perfect filters for it, a canister, can't see how he is on the wrong foot, however if he was planning to set up a reef tank, than yes he is on the wrong foot but that is not the plan

and i agree with paddy, how many fish only tanks - excluding preds have you honestly seen in comparison to fish/coral tanks?. i dont think its about self control i think its about having something your proud of. coral tanks look far better than fo tank any day of the week so it natural for anyone to want to go that way

hmm fish only compared to coral tanks i would say 40/60 with 60% of tanks being full reef's
I'm sure he will be very proud of his first fish only tank, who wouldn't be proud of a tank with a couple of nemo's swimming around in it, I'm sure his daughter will love them, the whole reason behind setting up this tank. and I'm sorry but how come just because a tank does not have corals in it you just assume it will look like shit?

im not having a go at you sam either im just stating that in my experience cannisters on marines work best with alterations to the media or simply left as flow throughs. the less dead spots you can create the more chance your nitrates will be low and things like internal stress to fish and algae arent going to become issues

I don't take it that you are having a go at me, and i am certainly not having one at you, just debating differ beliefs, and that is what it all comes down to, there is so many ways to set this tank up, not saying one is right or wrong, we all just have a different style of working, see i prefer to go with the easies and cheapest way for the OP, however you are more of a gizmo person so you want to sell him every toy available, which sure will make a difference and they will do there job, but there is no need for them. fish won't be stressing from nitrates of 20

[Paddy]

and what would make you think that? i think that you will have no real problems until your nitrate starts to creep above 40ppm, what do i base that on i hear you ask, just my previous experience. and why would FW fish accept a much higher nitrate reading than SW fish?

Any nitrates around or in excess of 10ppm and you will see an increase in algal growth, noone wants that.

but he is starting on the right foot, he's setting up a fish only tank with the perfect filters for it, a canister, can't see how he is on the wrong foot, however if he was planning to set up a reef tank, than yes he is on the wrong foot but that is not the plan

Know the bloke personally? He hasnt been on here for over 2 mnths, who knows what hes doing. We have already all agreed that for a FO system he can do what you suggest and that if he plans to run a reef system he cannot, so where is the argument?

hmm fish only compared to coral tanks i would say 40/60 with 60% of tanks being full reef's
I'm sure he will be very proud of his first fish only tank, who wouldn't be proud of a tank with a couple of nemo's swimming around in it, I'm sure his daughter will love them, the whole reason behind setting up this tank. and I'm sorry but how come just because a tank does not have corals in it you just assume it will look like shit?

Nobody said it would be shit
Please don't call them nemo's even just clownfish is fine but cmon.
94% of statistics are used by 63% of people trying to prove a moot point and then 43.67% of people believe it... NB Sources may vary and %'s may change under differing conditions.

I don't take it that you are having a go at me, and i am certainly not having one at you, just debating differ beliefs, and that is what it all comes down to, there is so many ways to set this tank up, not saying one is right or wrong, we all just have a different style of working, see i prefer to go with the easies and cheapest way for the OP, however you are more of a gizmo person so you want to sell him every toy available, which sure will make a difference and they will do there job, but there is no need for them. fish won't be stressing from nitrates of 20

Fish will stress when the algae uses up there O2 and they are breathing dead water because hes not allowed to buy an extra powerhead "gizmo" to promote gaseous exchange.



Isn't disecting fun....

[Tucunare]

this is getting out of hand.
for the record - im not trying to sell anything - ive got my customer base already but if he wanted to buy then id be happy to supply.
no one said it would look like poo but youd have to agree that coral added to any saltwater tank looks better than rock only even if covered in caulerpa and coraline. its natural progression even you at some point sam would have though "hey ive got LPS corals down (bulletproof stuff) i want to try SPS (more advanced) right - natural progression.
opions will vary wherever you go and yeah i like gizmos, but theres also a difference between gizmos and essentuals, fish/corals, fw/sw whatever the situation may be
agree to disagree

[malawiman85]

Seriously guys!!! A bit hostile don't you reckon??? Who the hell would bother asking for help when they get such a response... I know it wasn't directed at the initial poster but WTF??? The guy just wanted some ideas.

[Paddy]

Seriously guys!!! A bit hostile don't you reckon??? Who the hell would bother asking for help when they get such a response... I know it wasn't directed at the initial poster but WTF??? The guy just wanted some ideas.

No hostility from me and Sam has noted that he's not having a go at anyone? As you mentioned, not directed at the initial poster, who isn't looking at the thread so really its just been a civilised debate as to differing techniques as far as I can see.

Sure these debates shouldn't be held in active forums where they take emphasis away from informative help but at the same time the marine section of this forum is anything but active and after a month of no new posts I think it's great that there is some activity even if it is a debate, provided it does not end of hostile and if it is deemed to be inappropriate I assume it will be moderated to full extent of moderation lol

[Tucunare]

no hostility here either, this may actually help out others as to what they want to do

[gibbs]

lol, you kids.
You guys were hanging for a post and made the most of it. Love it, just love it

[spiro]

Man, I forgot wot this topic was about!!