14 replies to this topic

[Robyn]

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Hello, thank you for this forum. Im sorry this is so long

 

We have a 450L heavily planted community tank which has been running well for 4 monthes.

Neon rainbows 12 (had some babies, which I wasn’t prepared for! So didn’t survive)

3 big loaches – 8cm each, 3 little loaches

3 siamese algae eaters – 10cm

8 rummy nose tetras, few cardinal tetras

1 large bristle nose, 3 medium and lots of babies!

4 corydoras

quite a few of these fish are several years old, from our 200L tank we upgraded from.

 

A few days ago (Sunday) we lost the big bristlenose (4 years old) and 2 rummy nose were bloated, 1 skinny with ?something protruding from anus. All water parameters were good. I was advised by my fish shop who I have great faith in, to treat with parasite clear, which I did after a partial water change. The next morning we woke to all the fish gasping at the top!! Algae eaters and the 2 bloated rummy nose were dead. Ph 7.4, ammonia – between 0 and .25, Nitrite- .25, nitrate - ?10 (I’ve forgotten).  We did a 50% water change and fish settled down quickly and behaved normally – phew!

 

Since then I have been testing the water morning and night.

Ph – 7.4 – 7.6

Ammonia - ?.25

Nitrites – 0

Nitrates – 0

gH – 3

kH – 3.

My Nitrates usually run at 10 – 20.

Fish all seem fine and behaving normally but very hungry because I haven’t fed them!

My LFS assures me the parasite clear wouldn’t knock off my filter bacteria but I am nervous to keep treating. Is it strange that I have no nitrates now, does that mean the tank is no longer breaking down ammonia and nitrites to nitrates??

 

It is now 2 days later, water all good no ammonia or nitrites, nitrates - 5. Fish all fine except one rainbow fish has a pointy bulge near the anus. I treated the fish with medicated food (internal parasite clear), they gobbled it up because they were very hungry!

 

Do you think i should keep treating for parasites. Is it very unusual to get a ?nitrite spike like that?

 

thanks for your help,

Robyn

[Buccal]

Rise in nitrites will always follow ammo spikes.
You may have to check out your filter is assembled correctly with medias because it seems you shouldn't be having problems.

As for parasite treatment,,, you must read the instructions and run the full course.
Partial treatments are no good.

As for your GH KH,,, it's terribly low and run risk of PH crash,, although your stocks are low and shouldnt deplete the KH to much more.
A KH of 5-6 would be safer,,, as it supports better numbers and healthier beneficial bacteria tat convert ammonia to the final product nitrate.

There should never be any readings of ammonia using test kit, you did a water change and your fish appeared relieved,,,, classic effects of Ammonia.
Grab some seachem prime and use as per instruction,,,, it detoxes ammonia.

[Robyn]

Thanks Buccal,

I think my filter is set up as in the directions and I'm also running my Astra filter from our 200L tank.

I have been adding 10g of the "stuff (can't remember the name and I'm not home) to raise gH & kH at each partial water change. I was aiming for 4 but will aim for higher.

Should I still use prime if ammonia is now 0? I am giving the medicated food for parasites as instructions say. Could some one please explain how they medicate food. I dissolve 1 scoop in about 5 ml of tank water then soak the pellets & algae wafers for 30min.

Thanks,
Robyn

[chocky]

this may help you

 

(taken from koko's)

 

 

 

(note - bicarb only raise kH. good idea to do 100% water change every 2-3 months to remove build up of sodium.)

 

or Some aragonite in your tank can help with raising your kH. i think someone was selling some in the for sale section

Edited by chocky, 05 June 2015 - 12:40 PM.

[Westie]

good idea to do 100% water change every 2-3 months to remove build up of sodium

 

I would have thought a 100% water change would be dangerous

[chocky]

 

I would have thought a 100% water change would be dangerous

 

**note: I'm not sure about for cichlids etc  **

 

but i do 100% for my fancy goldfish all the time. (my ranchus get 100% every 4 days - but thats cos i use no filter for them, only air stone).

 

i think as long as pH & temp match / are pretty close (or get acclimatize slowly), i think 100% once in a while can only be beneficial for them  

 

i'm still learning stuff about cichlids. its quite different to what i'm use to. like i read on here to clean filters only every 2-3 months. i clean mine every week but then again goldies are messy and poop a lot. i have never had any problems cleaning them regularly in terms of cycle bumps etc.

[Buccal]

It's only when increasing GH with magnesium sulphate (Epsom salts), to eleviate sulphate build up,,, sodium isn't to much of a issue as the lakes have a reasonable content of this.
This is why I use calcium chloride which raises GH and calcium benefits fish health.
I substitute calcium with magnesium sulphate occasionly for medical therapeutic for health insurance.

Magnesium sulphate also increases bowel movement in fish,,, so used to often, the fishes systems can become reliant on it for normality of excretion,,, then get bound up and not travel right once they stop receiving doses,, (note, only after long continual use).

Epsom salts is described often as good medical treatment, it is, but it's to weak to classify as a actual treatment.
It's actually a excellent disease preventative when used correctly rather than a cure treatment.

Buildup of anything of these substances in your water is only due to not correctly measuring and monitoring amounts going in.
After initial tank adjustments,,, only the dosage rates should apply to new water going in.

If you only have a few tanks,,, proper buffers from shops are easy and care free and cost effective.
I use raw materials and really know what I'm doing,,,, but I have to dose over 30k worth of liters,,, so cost is a factor.

Robyn,,, your method of parasite treatment is excellent,, so your on track there.
Buy a small bottle of seachem prime and use till bottle is finished.
Many fish keepers use the stuff indefinetely constantly.

Make sure your the only one feeding fish and be sure not to over feed.
All this is the best you can do for now,,, so wait and see how you travel,,, it all should come good.

[Robyn]

thanks everyone,

 

I'm using aquarealm to raise kH I have a big tub of it so i might as well carry on with that i guess, rather than baking soda though that probably would have been much cheaper. The rainbows definitely seem to have funny poos! Can I feed them twice a day with medicated food, but not too much food keeping in mind waste and risk of raised ammonia?

[Leichardti]

Does sound to me like some of your bacteria's been knocked off.

Ive heard some good stuff about Jungle Anti Parasite Fizz Tabs, and API general cure for internal parasites, if that's any help.

Edited by Leichardti, 05 June 2015 - 07:13 PM.

[Buccal]

One treatment in food a day is all that's needed.
Antibiotics administered in food will not harm your beneficial bacteria what so ever.
It's dosing the water that effects the bb.

Aquarealm buffer is excellent, just use a little more,,,

[chocky]

Are you using this?


Cos I'm pretty certain that doesn't affect your BB at all (if dosed in food or water) so should be all good

[Buccal]

It is only pure forms of antibiotics such as metro or dimetro that's knocks some beneficial bacteria off.

That internal parasite medication is made up of a number of constituents to treat a wider range of disease and if it does have metro in its ingredients then the levels will be far to low to effect your filters.

[Robyn]

thank you all for your replies,

 

an update ...

have been giving the fish medicated food with internal parasite clear for 1 week. fish all seem happy and healthy except poos are whitish. Is this a sign of parasites? do i need to do further treatment?

 

water parameters are all good except I still have little or no nitrates and kH - 4 and gH - 3, ph 7.4. I added 15g aquarealm 3 days ago with a PWC, my tank is 450L.

So it looks like i need to add more aquarealm, do i just do this weekly with the PWC or do it twice a week with a lesser amount?

 

thanks,

Robyn

[Buccal]

Don't get stressed at looking at poo color to much.
Just feed your fish 1mm spectrum and youll be fine.
There's truckloads of things and issues that effect fish poo appearance.

Your going to want at least 6 KH and GH minimum for a healthy running aquarium system.
If you need to know how much to add, you need to do some Maths.

First dose your tank each day to bring up your GH KH by one increment daily.
Each day dose until you reach your goal,,, going a fair bit past 6 is completely fine.

Fill a twenty liter bucket with tap water supply.
Work out how much teaspoons of buffer it takes to get your desired level in the bucket of twenty liters.
Work out how many liters of water you discard from your tank in a water change.
Then divide the twenty liters of the bucket into the amount of liters you discard of a water change.
You then take that figure and times (x) it buy the amount of teaspoons of buffer it took to treat the twenty liter bucket.

So every time you water change, it's this amount of teaspoons of buffer you add indefinetely.
And that's it,,,, maybe just check every 3-5months the GH KH in tank to make sure you haven't drifted of course.

[Robyn]

Thanks very much Buccal, very helpful