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Tropheus - Bloat


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#1 Mattymak

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 09:33 PM

hey guys, one of my tropheus has died this morning from bloat, and i havent over fed them at all i was just wondering how the fish could of got it?

thanks - matty

Please fill out as much as possible below and give us a description of what is wrong with your fish.

Type of fish: Tropheus bemba red
Symptoms: laying on the sand gasping for air looking fat and died the next morning
Other tank mates: own species
Tank size / capacity: 90x40x50
Type of Food fed: sera flora flakes
Feeding frequency/amount: once per day, small amount
Substrate: white sand
Type of filtration: 2 internal filters and one bio corner filter
Frequency of filter cleans: 1-2 times per month
Frequency and % volume of water changes: once per 2 weeks - one third
Last water change: last weekend
PH: unsure
KH: ''
GH: ''
Nitrite: ''
Nitrate: ''
Ammonia: ''
Phosphate: ''
Water temp: 26-28degrees
Medications used recently to date: nil
Any recent changes..new fish/filters/power outages etc etc:

Edited by Mattymak, 05 March 2012 - 01:17 AM.


#2 Westie

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 09:46 PM

insufficient water changes maybe?

#3 Bowdy

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 09:49 PM

Hi mate I Moved your post to the appropriate section and added the template so please fill in the blanks to give everyone a good idea as to what your working with.

Bloat can be a very common thing with Tropheus and is usually caused by poor water quality and poor diet.
Once you fill the tempate people will be abble to help.
Cheers.

#4 Riggers

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 11:14 PM

I think Ray, that matty's just asking what is it that causes bloat? Is there a common cause or reason that tropheus get bloat so frequently as opposed to other fish species, I'm curious to know if there's a reason as to why bloat is common in tropheus too, if anyone knows the answer let us know smile.gif

#5 Cam85

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 12:01 AM

why are you cleaning your filters so often?

#6 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 12:09 AM

not into tropheus... but bloat can be caused by the wrong diet which creates a gaseous reaction in fishes gut... ie too much protein in a vegetarian fish !!!

and poor water quality is big contributing factor too...

maybe an expert tropheus keeper will pipe up and help

#7 sandgroper

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 01:59 AM

Poor water quality, to much food, wrong size pellet, to much protein. If your feeding a food thats high in protein because you have other fish that need a higher protein food, feed a smaller size pellet, feed in small amounts and don't put the food all in the one spot. Tropheus are pigs and they gorge themselves to death. Also feed more vegetable matter Nori, zuchinni, algae covered rocks from a pond and HBH vegi flake. The main reason is the water and to much of the wrong food at once. cheers Steve

#8 fusco

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 08:06 AM

aahh the dreaded bloat
bloat is actually associated with stress eg through aggression from other tank mates and or a combination of other things eg food,water conditions etc ,
early indications are fish not eating,white stringy poo ,gasping and hiding in a corner
usually when one fish gets bloat it will affect others in the tank like a chain reaction
so the best thing to do is treat with medication like metro or fluran2 as soon as possible either isolate the said fish into a hospital tank and treat it or dose the whole tank
there are plenty of other forums that have info on this subject


here is some info from The chiclid room companion
QUOTE
Tropheus fear factor by pam chin

Tropheus bring with them two death cards: aggression and bloat. These are the two main reasons for Tropheus deaths in our tanks, both of which are totally controllable. Aggression among these fish can be unbelievable, they have a mouth full of teeth, that are the rasping type and they can de-scale another fish in moments. If you ever see individuals up in the corners of your tank, you better get them out, because they usually don't last long after that. Higher temperatures and poor water conditions can contribute to aggression, just another reason to keep your water changes frequent and massive. If you keep them in large enough tank and a large group, you don't need dither fish, which can sometimes cause more problems. Raising up a young group rather than buying adults is another key to less aggression, when they grow up together they learn to tolerate each other better.

The problem with bloat is that there really isn't a black and white definition of it. When a hobbyist starts losing fish and they don't know what the cause is, they usually say it was bloat. What we do know is that stress appears to be the common denominator. The stress can be caused from poor water conditions, wrong diet, aggressive tank mates, undersized tank, wrong pH, wrong temperature, etc., and when you have a couple of these problems it seems to be a recipe for trouble. Tropheus are worry warts, and any change in their normal routine can trigger stress, like changes in their diet, deteriorating water conditions, moving a long established group to a new tank, or the introduction of other fish whether they are the same species or not.

So, is it a parasite, a bacteria or a blockage?? Actually it might be one or all. What seems to happen is when the fish is under some type of stress, it causes a break down in the immunity system and this can cause all sorts of problems. For example:
1.Parasites/pathogens/flagellates already in the fishes system can bloom, and multiply extremely fast, and since the fish is stressed, it can't fight this off, like they normally would.
2.Sometimes it starts with the slime coat breaking down, which could be caused by a bacterial infection.
3.Over feeding is a big factor along with feeding the wrong foods, which can cause digestive problems and/or blockages in the intestinal track.
4.Other times fish can get what I call reverse bloat, where they actually look like their stomachs are sucked in, and they appear to be starving to death.

Recognizing the early signs of bloat is a big factor in being able to diagnose it. I have only been able to cure it at the earliest stages with Clout. Why Clout works is a debate, as it is a parasitic medicine, but this is the only medication that I have found that works for me. If your first round with Clout doesn't seem to work, there are many who have been known to double the dosage and treat again. At this point what do you have to lose?

Observing your fish, so that you can get a jump on it is critical. Not eating seems to be the first symptom to bloat, but so are stringy white feces, along with vent inflammation, fins clamped tight to the body, and not swimming. Usually once the fish has actually bloated, with the scales sticking out, not just a swollen belly, it is usually too late, their dead. I have killed quite a few Tropheus before I was able to figure this out, now I can see it a mile away.






#9 Riggers

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 08:53 AM

Thanks guys for the great info, much appreciated smile.gif

#10 Bowdy

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 09:16 AM

I would up the water changed to weekly feed every second day and get your water tested and go see olli at Aquotix and get some dmz and treat them. The thing with bloat is its almost never just one fish that gets effected. And be sure to only clean your filter with tank water. Good luck with them mate smile.gif

#11 Mattymak

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 05:26 PM

im worried about putting zuchini and stuff incase they eat to much and it causes bloat?

#12 Bowdy

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 08:31 PM

If it is bloat you will need to medicate the fish I would also get your water tested and don't introduce differant food at this time till your sure there are no sign's of bloat at all.


#13 sandgroper

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 11:11 PM

QUOTE (Mattymak @ Mar 5 2012, 08:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
im worried about putting zuchini and stuff incase they eat to much and it causes bloat?

If you have already got bloat, then i would stop feeding altogether for awhile. Work on your water quality, you want it at it's best it can be at this time. If you get to it in the early stage no medication should be needed. If it's just a Tropheus tank then i would stick to an all vegi base diet, if you also have meat eaters as well you just need to use some tricks to keep them away from the higher protein food as much as possible. A couple of tricks i use is use a smaller size pellet, remove all the lids at the front of the tank, put a few pellets down one end and when the tropheus go for it put the rest down the other end. By the time the Tropheus get down the other end the majority of it is gone, this way it stops them from pigging out on the higher protein food. Thats why people tend to keep the two types of eaters in seperate tanks but i like a challenge and it can be done, you just have to out wit them. cheers Steve

#14 bigjohnnofish

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 11:26 PM

QUOTE (sandgroper @ Mar 5 2012, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
, you just have to out wit them. cheers Steve

that must be a challenge for you - to outwit a fish... Rofl_3f.gif Rofl_3f.gif Rofl_3f.gif tongue.gif


#15 sandgroper

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 11:36 PM

QUOTE (bigjohnnofish @ Mar 6 2012, 02:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
that must be a challenge for you - to outwit a fish... Rofl_3f.gif Rofl_3f.gif Rofl_3f.gif tongue.gif

Not really after all i am one (sandgroper) tongue.gif

#16 Mattymak

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 12:01 AM

QUOTE (sandgroper @ Mar 5 2012, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you have already got bloat, then i would stop feeding altogether for awhile. Work on your water quality, you want it at it's best it can be at this time. If you get to it in the early stage no medication should be needed. If it's just a Tropheus tank then i would stick to an all vegi base diet, if you also have meat eaters as well you just need to use some tricks to keep them away from the higher protein food as much as possible. A couple of tricks i use is use a smaller size pellet, remove all the lids at the front of the tank, put a few pellets down one end and when the tropheus go for it put the rest down the other end. By the time the Tropheus get down the other end the majority of it is gone, this way it stops them from pigging out on the higher protein food. Thats why people tend to keep the two types of eaters in seperate tanks but i like a challenge and it can be done, you just have to out wit them. cheers Steve




mate i dont live to far from you, you seem to know a fair bit, could you come around one day and have a look?

#17 sandgroper

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 01:28 AM

Yer no worries, when i get time i'll pm ya.

#18 Bowdy

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 11:45 PM

How are the trophs goin mate ?

#19 Mattymak

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:10 AM

they are going alright aye, steve (sandgroper) popped over said they are looking alright and that it was most probably the one off for that certain fish so hoping for the best smile.gif

i seen you at the action bowdy haha smile.gif

#20 Westie

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:44 AM

who was that ugly bugger behind the bbq? biggrin.gif




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