12 replies to this topic

[coltpeacemaker]

Please fill out as much as possible below and give us a description of what is wrong with your fish.

Type of fish: flowerhorn
Symptoms: possible hexmita
Other tank mates: none
Tank size / capacity: 215 ltrs
Type of Food fed: none atm
Feeding frequency/amount: none atm
Substrate: gravel
Type of filtration: aqua one 1000 filter
Frequency of filter cleans: 10% every 1-2 days
Frequency and % volume of water changes:
Last water change: yesterday
PH: 7.8
KH: 5
GH: not sure
Nitrite: 20
Nitrate: 0.0
Ammonia: 0.0
Phosphate: not sure
Water temp:
Medications used recently to date:
Any recent changes..new fish/filters/power outages etc etc:

 

i bought some intertinal hexmita clear and internal parasite clear from aquatix because my flowerhorn may have hex or parasites as he has stringy poop now the lady said you can use both at the same time which i though was alot off meds at once but there the experts now this morning all the water has gone cloudy its scary and im starting to wonder whats going on. they said it wont harm the filters but the strange thing is it didnt go cloudy when i put it in at around 11am only when i got up this morning, so is this normal any idears....thanks

[malawiman85]

I dunno but three things to do asap:
Observe fish... if he is behaving normally... sweet.
Test ammo.
Double check dose rates that you used.
If you're worried, give Ollie at Aquotix a call.

[Ageofaquariums]

Ammonia spike likely, has been bioaccumulated by cloudy water bacterial bloom hence 0ppm reading.

Ensure oxygenation is good and probably safest not to feed.

[coltpeacemaker]

your right just had water checked ammonia spike ill do 50% change and add seachem stability should be all good thanks

malawiman85 and Ageofaquariums

[Mr_docfish]

With all medications, if your filter bacteria have not been accustomed to it, it can knock some bacteria back for a short while - hence why all medications recommend water changes between treatments.... Once the bacteria have re-grouped in numbers, then subsequent treatments will not have any affect on these bacteria.

Again, this goes for all medications - dewormers, formalin and/or dye based liquids, antibiotics etc... Even sudden changes in pH can cause bacteria to either stop working or die off for a short period.

I will explain this to my staff to ensure this information is passed on so all people are aware.

Note to all staff:

Any medication of any type has the potential to knock back filter bacteria - particularly if the medication has not been used before!
So the sale of any medication should come with a verbal caution that one should keep an eye on the water quality (particularly ammonia and nitrite) while medicating and do water changes immediately if things don't look right like cloudy water or stressed fish.

Cheers
Oliver Storig BSc (Biol)

Edited by Mr_docfish, 28 May 2016 - 06:23 PM.

[Bostave]

My advice when it comes to treating fish with antibiotics and any other medications is that it should be done in a separate tank (hospital tank) with enough aeration. Use of medication to be undertaken only after the causative agent has been identified. Even if antibiotics packaging may suggest that it won't harm the filter microfibre, antibiotics do kill gram positive or gram negative depending on its nature which may affect the nitrogen cycle. In a hospital tank, where the fish is not fed, chances of ammonia or nitrite poisoning are highly reduced and the efficacy of the treatment is optimum as it interacts with the animal that requires the treatment. Also the desired concentration is best achieved in hospital tanks with just the fish and the water.

[Delapool]

That's really interesting on the filter bacteria. I do find older tanks are more 'bullet-proof'.

[Buccal]

That's because both bad and good bacterias adapt and mutate as a survival regeneration method,,, same scary thing with terrestrial bacteria,,,, supa bugs,,,, They adapt to new environments, treatments and antibiotics, hence all those nasty spreading hard to get rid off diseases which are usually secondary after long term waste solids build up causing both gram negative and gram positive diseases, but gram negative b is usually much more common.

And excellent beneficial bacteria in a good set system is the stuff off good maturity that has done all its adapting to work in and suit it's environment the best it can.

[Buccal]

My advice when it comes to treating fish with antibiotics and any other medications is that it should be done in a separate tank (hospital tank) with enough aeration. Use of medication to be undertaken only after the causative agent has been identified. Even if antibiotics packaging may suggest that it won't harm the filter microfibre, antibiotics do kill gram positive or gram negative depending on its nature which may affect the nitrogen cycle. In a hospital tank, where the fish is not fed, chances of ammonia or nitrite poisoning are highly reduced and the efficacy of the treatment is optimum as it interacts with the animal that requires the treatment. Also the desired concentration is best achieved in hospital tanks with just the fish and the water.

That is the most effective way to treat a singular fish and being cautious with the main tank.
But there are many situations when the issues exist in the tank somewhere and not just the fish, these days I just never seem to run into fish health issues,,, but about 3 years back my bore ground water took a sudden drastic change and caught me by surprise, it went from being medium hardness with a PH of 8,,,,,, down to fairly soft and neutral PH,,,,,, this created the very beginnings gram negative issues which presented evenly throughout the entire centrifugal system,, I picked up fast on it as I was noticing flicking, slight shyness, slight color fade and fish started to look as if they've just been fed all the time.
Went back to scheme water and bought 25kg bags of sodium bicarbonate and calcium chloride,,,, and things have been Mickey Mouse ever since and never better.
I chose to switch to scheme as it already had much better levels of KH and PH and that meant not having to dump so much additive especially sodium bicarbonate which perfectly fine and needed in the correct measure.

When ever treating the display make sure your temp is 27 or over, don't feed the day prior to treatment and during treatment and water changes as per instruction of what ever treatment if any.
And no uv units and sometimes keeping lights of helps to...

[Delapool]

That is the most effective way to treat a singular fish and being cautious with the main tank.
But there are many situations when the issues exist in the tank somewhere and not just the fish, these days I just never seem to run into fish health issues,,, but about 3 years back my bore ground water took a sudden drastic change and caught me by surprise, it went from being medium hardness with a PH of 8,,,,,, down to fairly soft and neutral PH,,,,,, this created the very beginnings gram negative issues which presented evenly throughout the entire centrifugal system,, I picked up fast on it as I was noticing flicking, slight shyness, slight color fade and fish started to look as if they've just been fed all the time.
Went back to scheme water and bought 25kg bags of sodium bicarbonate and calcium chloride,,,, and things have been Mickey Mouse ever since and never better.
I chose to switch to scheme as it already had much better levels of KH and PH and that meant not having to dump so much additive especially sodium bicarbonate which perfectly fine and needed in the correct measure.

When ever treating the display make sure your temp is 27 or over, don't feed the day prior to treatment and during treatment and water changes as per instruction of what ever treatment if any.
And no uv units and sometimes keeping lights of helps to...

Just coming back to this one out of interest in terms of what temperature to use when treating bacterial infections. Great share I thought.

I assume that articles that say lift the temperature believe that will speed up fish metabolism to fight off infection and those that say lower it, believe this will slow down the infection growth which will allow the fish to have a better chance of beating it?

I don't have any sick fish to treat.

I have noted columnaris (I believe) in the tank twice. Once several years ago when there was a temperature spike leading into summer. The second was after using the high heat method to treat ich.

In treating the first time (neons) I found that I would start to reduce the cotton-mouth, warm weather would return and it would come back. This matched a few threads I found whereby keeping temp below 25C (or at lower end of fish preference) gave a better chance.

But these are just a few observations and I'm curious on if lower heat, no change or higher heat is way people have success. Thoughts?

http://www.americana...Columnaris.html

'Temperature Spikes or sustained high temperatures can often allow for a Columnaris infection to take hold in an otherwise healthy aquarium especially if other stressors are present such as injury, stress, age, etc. (in fact sudden increases in temperature is a common cause of a Columnaris outbreak in an aquarium or pond).'

Edited by Delapool, 31 May 2016 - 07:40 AM.

[Buccal]

It lies dormant in unfavored conditions and presents to start a life cycle when it's suits,,,, so raising temperature and is wake up time.
Most diseases alike have a sweet spot usually around 26 to 27'c, when temp raised a few more degrees above, it speeds up the life cycle and gives the bacteria a much shorter life.

Some medications say turn the heat up because it speeds the cycles of the diseases,,, not really to increase metabolisms of fish, although a fast metabolic rate does usually promote health.

Stress and temp changes can promote gram negative issues, in some circumstances,,, but it's usually more of a issue if dormant number is high to begin with.

28-29-30'c will see the life cycles of things speed up so much,, that the cycles fault.

Also straight out,,,,,, tanks with low KH values have higher chances of disease outbreak,, whatever species you keep, try to push the limits with highest possible KH,,,,,,, I'm not going to entertain debating about the KH,,,

But when we talk about in general disease free,,, it's the bigger picture of all the rights coming together in unison as many processes are dependent of each other to form a very stable balanced system wether big or small.

[Delapool]

Makes a lot of sense on the bigger picture. Find the trigger or triggers and you are half-way there. Thanks for the share.

I understand goldfish going into spring in ponds can have problems as the water is warming up, bacteria / parasites getting more active but the goldfish metabolic rate is just starting to kick into life. Purely from reading posts though.

[Buccal]

Yes, the immune systems are reduced by end of cold season,, even though metabolism is on the rise it's not much help as far as immune boosts go.
The fish needs to be in stable conditions with higher metabolic rates for a substantial short time to see any increase in the immune system strength,,, but visually looking, fish may seem relieved with increased activity, when heat is increased to warmer temps.

I have large outdoor ponds to,,,, as season starts to warm, I be sure that filters are never to choked with no waiste anywhere to harbor the awakening nasties,,, once the pond temp picks up further I can then increase food feeding back to summer warm water feeding habits.