110 replies to this topic

[ado]

Den,
don't worry...when i get a bit of time i will write my typical rant

surely there will be something in there for you to argue against

gotta get back to work now...

[Donna]

So what do you think Den? Are we a mote in God's eye, or a pimple on his ass?



You are certainly not the first person to think of this idea, and probably won't be the last.

What if we started thinking outside of our tentatively constructed squares? Maybe our lives are completely meaningless and have no purpose. We are here simply because of a cosmic coincidence which gave rise to life.....a one in a whatever huge number shot? What if we just lived our lives, doing our best to be good, for the sake of it? What if we were intrinsically motivated to try and optimise the lives of others and ourselves in an unselfish way because we respect life and the right to life? What if we really respect life.. I mean really respect it, because we appreciate just how incredible our being really is?

What if we are not special? What if we are simply tortured creatures who at some point of our evolution became aware of our own mortality and are doomed to spend our lives pursuing ways to avoid, ignore and run away from that fact? We create art, music, culture etc in a weak attempt to gain some immortality and continuity in a world that knows only one constant, and that is change. We desperately try and construct some meaning of our lives, which will ultimately burn out, as magically as they began. We produce babies in the middle of famine, war zones, plague and music festivals etc etc, because that's all we can do!

Imagine there's no heaven???? I'm not the first to think of that one either

Seriously Den, I challenge you to have a go. It's no more than you are asking from others.

How liberating could that actually be?

Donna

For further reading just Google existentialism..no I haven't had a wine yet.....

[Den]

Donna yes the perspective views I mentioned is something anyone can think of and theres probably millions of people who've thought the same way, I guess living in the same World many people share similar influences so its understandable for individuals to come to the same ideas and conclusions. I certainly dont mean to claim to be any kind of pioneer, but its something that came to mind to me in my teens and the idea has always kind of stuck and Im not sure if Ive subconsciously plagurised it from somewhere or wether it just came together from natural influences, anyway I only brought it up to add a bit of variety to the conversation,

What if we are not special?

But we are all very special, hope you enjoy this little 1minute snippet of my favourite Doctor, Deepak Chopra:



I just found this little video from Deepak which goes into a little of what I was dribbling about:

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

[marie90]

I too am an evolutionist and from a very early age questioned the absence of dinosaurs in the Bible.

You have to be careful declaring yourself an evolutionist though - Sir David Attenborough has received several death threats for his belief in evolution and not crediting god in his programmes.

I am too an evolutionist. All those years of human biology have warped my mind
I have to agree with Trekrider
Ive always argued my point with the abscence of dinosaurs in the bible.

And also the death threats to David Attenborough. Isnt that just proof that religion is the root of all evil. Theres no need for death threats because someone has different beliefs to you.

Although sometimes when you've had a really bad day its nice to think that someone is watching out for you.

That is all

[golden_dase]

Marie, that is an awesome response!!

And yes, its nice to know that if you have a really bad day, someone is watching over you... In my case, it's my wife! LOL!

Cheers!
Kevin

[Sazabi]

And yes, its nice to know that if you have a really bad day, someone is watching over you... In my case, it's my wife! LOL!

Does it mean when you pray long and hard you can get WC Mpangas from your wife?

[Trekrider]

And also the death threats to David Attenborough. Isnt that just proof that religion is the root of all evil. Theres no need for death threats because someone has different beliefs to you.

Although sometimes when you've had a really bad day its nice to think that someone is watching out for you.

That is all

Thanks Marie,

I agree with your 'religion being the root of all evil' (just look at all the atrocities in the world carried out in the name of religion) but would distinguish between religion and god/creation. This is what I was alluding to when I said that this thread could go way off topic. There are many religions but is there only one god? If you believe in god that is. Is there a god in the popular (human form) sense or is there a life force of some kind?

May the force be with you

[Ronny]

Ok, this is gonna be kinda off topic and I apologise in advance, but I don't think it's fair to say religion is the root of all evil.

Sure wars have started and people have died for their religion, but it is it really because of the religion?

The way I see it, these people are fighting for something they really believe in.
Regardless what it is, fights and wars are started because someone believes in something and someone else disagrees. It's strong human emotion and pride amongst other things.
Being a catholic, I wouldn't want to start a fight with someone just because he's of a differant religion, because I don't care.
Racism is something I've dealt with my whole life and that's something I care about and something I'd fight against...

Because I'm no english expert I'm finding it really hard to explain what I mean but I'm hoping someone else knows what I mean and can explain it better.

[Trekrider]

Ok, this is gonna be kinda off topic and I apologise in advance, but I don't think it's fair to say religion is the root of all evil.

Sure wars have started and people have died for their religion, but it is it really because of the religion?

The way I see it, these people are fighting for something they really believe in.
Regardless what it is, fights and wars are started because someone believes in something and someone else disagrees. It's strong human emotion and pride amongst other things.
Being a catholic, I wouldn't want to start a fight with someone just because he's of a differant religion, because I don't care.
Racism is something I've dealt with my whole life and that's something I care about and something I'd fight against...

Because I'm no english expert I'm finding it really hard to explain what I mean but I'm hoping someone else knows what I mean and can explain it better.

I agree it is people not religion itself - effectively people hiding behind religion (or in the name of religion). I don't agree that it is simply people objecting to the different views of others. I'm talking about things like genocide carried out in the name of religion. People of many races / religions have carried out genocide in the name of their religion - that isn't just a fight or war, it's about power and control!

Like you, I don't care what religion someone is or if they believe in God / Allah / little green men from mars provided they don't harm others in the name of their religion.

[Ronny]

I understand that, but wouldn't you agree, having said that, the root of these happenings would be greed and thirst for power?
As you said, they hide behind or do it in the name of religion but it's really for power and control...

[Trekrider]

I understand that, but wouldn't you agree in that case, the root of these happenings would be greed and thirst for power?

Absolutely - it is the hypocrisy of claiming it is in the name of religion.

That is why I distinguish between Den's original question of evolution vs creation (or somewhere in between) and religion, which is a whole different topic IMO.

[Ronny]

I know, that's why I apologised in advance for the off topic post, just couldn't read the posts saying religion is the root of all evil and not say anything

Sorry Den.

[Den]

Theres an arguement going around that goes something like this, sorry if I have it a bit wrong, but I think it makes the point:

Religions cause wars and misinterpretation of Religious texts can allow religious extremists to justify killing the in the name of their God, Religious extremists/terrorists fly planes into buildings screaming "in the name of God", athiests dont carry such misguided conviction, what could motivate athiests to do such horrible acts and what would they scream when murdering mass suvillians?

Answer: Atheists scream heil Hitler!

So it can be argued that it not just Religion that causes war.

Now lets have a big debate on weather Hitler was a catholic!

Take a look at what happens when a Country bans Religion i.e. "China", generally it doesnt usually stop there, cultures also begin being attacked, I recall when the Tibetins where being imprisoned and murdered by the state for playing traditional dance and music as well. OK China is now being moderated but where is that influence coming from? I beleive from other Countries that have freedom of Religion.

Cheers
Den

[Donna]

It's coming from the most all encompassing religion ever....capitalism.

[STEVEGREEN]

in my quest for money and power i am trying to breed B.tricoti , i believe that when i achieve this i will be held by my peers as a demi-god.

this is the first step in my plan for galatic domination.

once this has been achieved i will start my own religion of TANGism , then me and my followers will apply for tax free status.

That is all for now my children

Steve Green

[Donna]

Capitalist Pig

[Den]

The guise of war wether it be Religious or Political ideology or retribution is only a thin mask that covers the underlying factor and the true purpose and reason for war which I believe always has and always will remain the same and that is the aquisition and defense of the Earths resources.

So to me it is poinless to try to blame capitalism, religion, tricoti or politics of any kind.

Cheers
Den

[cichlidsrule]

i think they didnt teach you very well about the bible in school if anyone did go to a catholic school. im guessing everyone that voted evoloution thought of the adam and eve story and thought that made no sense and couldnt of possibly happened so voted evolution. that is because that story isnt to be taken literally at all.

i beleive in both. i beleive that we evolved but i beleive we had some help along the way because we dont come from nowhere. i beleive in Jesus and that he was god's son. there are many stories in the bible that shouldnt be taken literally like noah's ark and adam and eve.

this is just my beleif. im not trying to change anyone.

[Jezza]

As a Christian i am a creationist.
I believe that we were created for one main reason - and that is to give glory and honor to God.
He created us simply because He wanted to. And who are we to question His motives?
We might not understand how or why things were created the way they are, but there is a reason - He chose to - simple as that...


as to the question of dinosaurs - they are in the Bible. But the Bible was not written in english, and as such some names of animal etc are different to what we call them.
see this site: http://www.clarifyin...com/dinos.shtml
here is a part of this website:
"The Bible refers to many the common animals we know today. The list includes lions, wolves, bears, sheep, cattle and dogs along with various kinds of birds, rodents, reptiles, and insects. What is interesting is that this extensive list includes three animals that we no longer recognize. These three are (in the original Hebrew language) tanniyn, b@hemowth (yes, it’s spelled correctly—at least as close as we can get in Roman characters), and livyathan.

Although we alter the spelling of behemoth and Leviathan slightly, we still use those same words in bibles today. However, tanniyn is always translated into another word when we write it in English. Tanniyn occurs 28 times in the Bible and is normally translated “dragon.” It is also translated “serpent,” “sea monster,” “dinosaur,” “great creature,” and “reptile.” Behemoth and Leviathan are relatively specific creatures, perhaps each was a single kind of animal. Tanniyn is a more general term, and it can be thought of as the original version of the word “dinosaur.” The word “dinosaur” was originally coined in 1841, more than three thousand years after the Bible first referred to “Tanniyn.” To make things clearer, we constructed the following table comparing the scientific names with the Biblical names tanniyn, behemoth, and Leviathan."
Have a look at the web site for more info on dinosaurs in the Bible

for more info on creation, have a look at this site:
http://creationontheweb.com/

i am not a scientist, so do not have all the answers, nor can i explain every thing about creation.
but my faith is sufficient for me to believe in creation.

jeremy

[werdna]

I think if you read the same book enough over and over again, people are going to believe it... whether it is fiction or non fiction