96 replies to this topic

[Kieran]

if everyone is as open as they say they are on this forum then they should have no problem in putting their real dob and if they do have a problem then that is kinda suspect in my opinion. its not like they have to fill out their pesronal details like applying for a loan but as far as i can tell very little users use their profile page for what it is intended for.

I mean this as no disrespect, but perhaps a person may want as little of their personal information on the internet as possible? Identity theft is a serious issue, and I'm reluctant to give any of my details that may be used by an unscrupulous person to access my banking. When the en-masse card skimming was going on last year my entire household was left with my one debit card because the bank cancelled all of our cards and it took weeks to get my money back.

the identity fraud is a bit of a far stretch as thats the reason most people have avitars and 'alter egos', but if they actually gave out their full name, dob, address and phone then it is really their own fault for not protecting their one informantion.

eg. [fictional] this would take about 5 minutes max
1. You ask buy a fish from 'Aaron', and he gives you his landline to call.
2. You click on his username and click 'Find topics by this member' and scan down to find that he has finished a post somewhere with Aaron Aaronson, or similar info.
3. You pull out the phonebook and using the location listed here and the number he has given you, and you now have his address.
It is possible for you to now go and rob him, because you know he has a Zebra Pleco etc (of course you wouldn't, nor would anyone on this forum I should hope)

I'm not saying that I'm against people putting more info on their usernames here (I would love it! ), I'm just saying one must be careful with what information one reveals to the entire world. I always check a person's profile page before I deal with them.

[Scales]

this is a good example of people not thinking before they act and as such their own fault

but i would love someone to try and come break into my fish room so i could beat the living crap out of them and then leave them on my curbside thinking about the consiquenses of their actions

clay

[Den]

We don't need to label everybody, and I am sure Den will be happy to argue with anyone of any age

There is a very easy way to tell peoples age on here, heres how:

1. Have a debate with them on Intelligent design.

2. If they expose themselves as Athiests who accept the theory of evolution as the complete answer for all of creation and existence you then know you are either talking with someone under the age of 18 or a Biologist(of any age).


Cheers
Den

[Kieran]

Nice!

[Cawdor]

I think the solution is very simple, without need for "enforcers" and mandatory birth year (how on earth would you even check the info provided is valid? there is simply no way of checking and enforcing this).

If you want to know the age of the person you're dealing with or plan to deal with, just ask them.

Privacy concerns, time and effort spent on this for no apparent benefit make this a non-issue for me.

[Hydonia]

Agreed Tim.

Clay,

Personally I would fake any information in regards to address or date of birth if required. Yes even as a mod. I'm sorry but my age, sex, race any information is no one's but mine. If you don't want to buy fish from me, fine. If you don't want to take advice from me, fine. If you want to know my age, and ask it personally I will tell you to go pound sand, because it is none of your business. Age is irrelevant on a fish forum in my opinion, obviously it is an issue for you, and I am sorry you got burnt by some younger members.

[Paddy]

Privacy concerns, time and effort spent on this for no apparent benefit make this a non-issue for me.

Always good to see commonsense prevail, besides we shouldn't we be distracting Cawdow/Daz from implementing our chat room!

[Ivan Sng]

this is a good example of people not thinking before they act and as such their own fault

but i would love someone to try and come break into my fish room so i could beat the living crap out of them and then leave them on my curbside thinking about the consiquenses of their actions

clay

Perhaps it is not about the age but about how you interact with others... and possibly why parents stop their child from trading with you...
And definitely a reason why age and other personal details should not be readily made available...

[Scales]

cawdor, hydonia you should pay more attention to the intent of this post, not your own concerns in regards to the subject, as you as commitee members, and cawdor as an admin, will be fielding the questions from press if something does happen as far as some of the concerns, one in particular, come to light. your non preventative stances are a worry and i have pointed out more sensitive concerns to daz via pm as they are not to be read in open forums such as this.

i deal on a daily basis in person what you guys deal with on line, and with a very simular size membership, as far as public concerns and opinions goes and like i said before it is worrying that you dont see the big picture here. if you really are content to sit back and ignore the facts at hand ill remind you that you deal with fish AND people and as such should pay both attention to both.

it is dissapionting that as comitee members that you are not open to a members opinion and dismiss the facts before you have discussed this as a commitee, or is it the hydonia and cawdor show and you both have the final say on things? even more dissapointing is the fact that you hydonia openly say that you are dishonest and 'would fake any personal info' and as such i have to querie your position as a commitee member.

another quick querie, how many commitee members are under the age of 18? as an open forum i would have thought that all opinions would have to be accounted for and if your stances are of the opinion that age doesnt matter then if the answer is 0 why hasnt the pcs commitee sourced out such a avenue of input?

clay

[Scales]

Perhaps it is not about the age but about how you interact with others... and possibly why parents stop their child from trading with you...
And definitely a reason why age and other personal details should not be readily made available...

my personal interaction with people is paramount to me and am a highly trusted person in my field as far as children goes.

its more the lack of concern shown by members when it comes to the subject and it is only the age of people, and specifically minors, that are at hand here not peoples general information

[Jaraqui]

There is a very easy way to tell peoples age on here, heres how:

1. Have a debate with them on Intelligent design.

2. If they expose themselves as Athiests who accept the theory of evolution as the complete answer for all of creation and existence you then know you are either talking with someone under the age of 18 or a Biologist(of any age).


Cheers
Den

Here's how to tell the age of someone. If they accept the theory of creationism, without any evidence or proof and pray to a single flawed God which cannot possibly exsist, they are either under 18 (labeled by their parents as religious) or a nieve, miss informed individual.

Cheers
Tau5

[Cawdor]

Clay, you seem to be getting defensive when there is no need for it. You asked in your first post about people's opinions. I have expressed my opinion on the matter you presented in your first post and have said why I have that opinion. Just because I don't agree with what you are proposing doesn't mean I have dismissed it, doesn't mean that the committee has dismissed it. I speak for myself in all my posts unless indicated otherwise.

From your first post you said you want to be able to know if you are dealing with a child, adolescent or adult on this forum. My proposal is that the easiest way to determine that is that you ask them.

I don't know where the press would come into this...we are a forum that is an avenue for people to communicate. Dealings people have between themselves are none of our concern or responsibility as far as I am aware.

[STEVEGREEN]

i am equally disappointed as Clay with the responses by committee members in this post.

this is a society with paying member and this post has been created by a concerned member.

please do not dismiss paying members concerns with your personal opinions as i do not believe yo have the right to assume your opinion is shared by the majority of the members.

i feel Clays frustration of being stuffed around and understand why he has started this thread.

unfortunately i cringe at dealing with almost anyone off these forums as 7 odd years of dealing with most of Perths tank kickers has left a bitter taste in my mouth.

but hearing these replys from committee members is even worst.

i thought the PCS was trying to shake the label of "boys club" . please use more tact when answering posts if you have put your hand up to represent PCS.

Cheers
Steve Green

[Paddy]

You surprise me Steve, I don't see where anyone has dismissed Clay's ideas, if anything there has been a fairly lengthy debate on many facets of the topic. I still believe any regulation adds to unneeded complexity and will put people off, any regulation needs to have more benefits than these costs.

[werdna]

Should it be made mandatory for forum members to show their age in thier personal information? Or maybe just people under ther age of 18?

It would make it easier to relate to a member knowing if you were talking to a child, adolescent or adult and also avoid the debates that get out of control knowing that you are debating with a young person not an adult.

This is relivant in todays aquarium society with more and more young people getting into the hobby and onto forums due to the internet and i just wanted to know peoples opinions on the subject.

clay

Sorry Clay, I agree with Tim here.
You asked for peoples opinions, and it seems that you cant accept them if they are different to your own.

As far as I am concerned, if you dont like dealing with people on the classifieds, dont use the classifieds.
Sell them to a LFS. You get less money, but they buy more at a time generally, and then they have to deal with the tank kickers and time wasters.

Andrew

[Cawdor]

Steve, nobody has dismissed his concerns. We have, as individuals, expressed our personal opinions as invited in the original post.
Everyone can agree that it is frustrating dealing with some people. I think almost everyone had that experience. All I said is that in my opinion, the proposal is not workable and there is an easier solution.

I really don't understand why some people seem intent on making this a huge issue when it is not.

[Ivan Sng]

my personal interaction with people is paramount to me and am a highly trusted person in my field as far as children goes.

its more the lack of concern shown by members when it comes to the subject and it is only the age of people, and specifically minors, that are at hand here not peoples general information

Well here's one for discussion of disclosing the age... while the disclosure of age may well help and assist you with the dealing with minors, unfortunately by disclosing the age of minors, these minors may be exposed to those who prey on minors for activities that may not relate to fish keeping... and from the sound of it, you have lots of experience dealing with minors in your field of work, so you are probably aware that despite warnings, some minors are still gullible and may make certain decisions that may not make sense to "adults"... hence the issue with your frustation.

So it is considered appropriate to implement the Age feature if there is an increase potential that these minors are put at risk??

[STEVEGREEN]

I really don't understand why some people seem intent on making this a huge issue when it is not.

please explain this statement as being non-dismissive ?

I would like to see peoples ages before i deal with them too.

seems like everything to do with changing this forum is "too hard" "too time consuming" or "too expensive"

i understand that dealings between forum members cant have a legal holding to the club for prosecution reasons but quotes like

"Dealings people have between themselves are none of our concern or responsibility as far as I am aware."

i would bloody well hope that there is some concern !!! if there is no concern well maybe your part of the committee for the wrong reasons

Cheers
Steve Green

[Hydonia]

Hi guys,

Are committee members not allowed to have personal opinions? I know my opinion is personal, and I sure Tim's view is personal as well.

I have a few points to get back to you about Clay....

cawdor, hydonia you should pay more attention to the intent of this post, not your own concerns in regards to the subject, as you as commitee members, and cawdor as an admin, will be fielding the questions from press if something does happen as far as some of the concerns, one in particular, come to light. your non preventative stances are a worry and i have pointed out more sensitive concerns to daz via pm as they are not to be read in open forums such as this.

To me it seems like the intent of the post was asking people's opinions which I gave. As for my non-preventative stance.....I have no idea what you are getting at, this is a forum for fish lovers and keepers and that's the way it should stay. As for your comments to Daz, I have not been privy to these. Not sure if Tim has either, but again what does this have to do with our "personal opinions"?

i deal on a daily basis in person what you guys deal with on line, and with a very simular size membership, as far as public concerns and opinions goes and like i said before it is worrying that you dont see the big picture here. if you really are content to sit back and ignore the facts at hand ill remind you that you deal with fish AND people and as such should pay both attention to both.

What big picture are you getting at? What facts at hand. I’m not trying to be smart, but where did this come from? I am seriously confused.

it is dissapionting that as comitee members that you are not open to a members opinion and dismiss the facts before you have discussed this as a commitee, or is it the hydonia and cawdor show and you both have the final say on things? even more dissapointing is the fact that you hydonia openly say that you are dishonest and 'would fake any personal info' and as such i have to querie your position as a commitee member.

As for this garbage, again personal opinions.....If there is support behind concerns, or questions or something members want done, we discuss them at the meetings. So far you have asked for opinions, which we have been given and have been attacked over.
As for my being dishonest, well I am actually unfailing honest, which is why I told you that is what I would do. I have had my identity stolen, and it wasn't fun, I wont let that happen again. If this forum makes it mandatory to put in personal details like that, then I will "fake it" but before I do that I will resign as a committee member, because dishonesty like that does not belong on a committee that represents all of the PCS members.

another quick querie, how many commitee members are under the age of 18? as an open forum i would have thought that all opinions would have to be accounted for and if your stances are of the opinion that age doesnt matter then if the answer is 0 why hasnt the pcs commitee sourced out such a avenue of input?

If you were at the AGM, you would know that no committee members are under the age of 18, but again, who cares? Age, race, sex, religion should have nothing to do with anything on a fish forum.

Steve,
regardless of whether the member is paying or not has no baring on what the committee looks at, what concerns they may have. The committee has not even looked at this yet, why do you assume that we have made a decision on this? Why does our personal opinions matter?

If more then two members show concern and you guys want it discussed then fine. Again, that has no bearing on my PERSONAL OPINION.

[Hydonia]

"Dealings people have between themselves are none of our concern or responsibility as far as I am aware."

i would bloody well hope that there is some concern !!! if there is no concern well maybe your part of the committee for the wrong reasons

Cheers
Steve Green

So what would you have the commitee do with the classifieds? Would you have and age limit put on it? Post limit, what would you want us to do to make it better in your opinion? the best stance IN MY OPINION is to do nothing with the classified, there will always be dodgy people there, and not much you can do besides blacklist people. But this is off topic.


I am not being dismissive of Clay's post, I am just giving my opinion, which other members are doing as well. MY PERSONAL OPINION