41 replies to this topic

[silverscreen]

this is more for the people that have been in the hobbie/Obsession for a few years and seen the price of fish swing and change....

 

what makes the price a fish change...is it supply...demand.

 

i understand if its harder to breed...and if it takes time and a certain skill to grow these fish then the price will be more.

 

And i know that fish shops have overheads and staff and rent and power bills and the list goes on...but so do people who breed fish at home...apart from staff.

 

so if we use the humble old bristlenose for example...it seems the rate...going buy gumtree is $1 a cm...so a adult should only cost you say $10 maybe $15 tops.

 

i have seen bristlenose in shops for sale for $30 and they are not even adults.

 

then in the classifieds on here i have seen some nearly the same price...there is a wide range of prices 

 

a breeding pair or a colony and even f1 then the skys the limit

 

how do people come up with these prices for these fish...what makes them come to the decision that my species of fish is worth this much.

 

this is by no means a complaint just a question to try and grasp the reason behind the prices...i have not used anyones adds to describe my question because i didnt want

 

to accuse people for something that they havent done.

 

 

 

 

[Anka]

Simply put, people will sell at the highest price that they think people will buy.

Obviously that'a just a general rule. I for one usually give away my fish or used items (unless they are $$).

A huge factor in the price of some fish is that they are not legal imports and therefore demand tends to exceed supply. Simple economics.

[Bombshocked]

I Think Its Alot To Do With Fry Survival Rate / Species Hardiness / Average Survivability Rate With The Common Aquarist / Time To Breeding Size / How Often The Species Breed / How Many People Are Successfully Breeding This Fish / Skill Level Involved In Breeding Or Keeping The Species

[bigjohnnofish]

more to do with the greed of some people..... 

 

$1 per cm on b/n is more a wholesale price.... but as they get bigger it sorta J-curves up in price... as it costs more in food to grow an 8cm b/n to 11cm then it does to grow a fry from 1cm to 4cm... so economics behind the fish usually dictate a fair ish price.... 

 

if a fish is too expensive - no-one buys it... and seller may drop the price to try and sell... 

 

some fish need specific expensive food... may also drive the price of the fish up....

 

so no one factor governs fish price.... 

[silverscreen]

i am not just meaning bristlenoses...i am also talking about cichlids...yellows...blues...frontosas...fish that are very common...there is such a wide price spread on some of these fish ...its hard to know what they are actually worth.

[werdna]

They are worth the price that you are willing to pay and the seller is willing to let them go for.

[Buccal]

What Werdna just said wraps it all up in one, there are so many variables as to the value reasoning.
If I was to list all the factors with the why's, it would be far to much to read.
But one thing I would have to say, and please, no one take this personally.
Is that Perth has to watch it, so many species that should have not been lost are lost or very close to.
The shops are at constant war with private and online sellers that have a fraction of the overheads.
The shops have had lower prices or hold prices on fish that renders them basically non-profitable,,,
(but what's a fish shop with out fish ??). The fish are a magnet.

Because of this including the drop of the serious hobbyists that would spend the money and breed and strengthen the market again with numbers and types of species,,,,,, the market here for cichlids has gone very stale with not much new and exciting.
The shops can not pay top dollar to a breeder for rare fish because even with minimal mark up they won't sell because it's thought by buyers to be to expensive due to buyers having no knowledge of what's rare or not.

East is a different story,,, to make fish popular wether rare or almost lost trying to bring back,,,, it is marked up in price to make it sell believe it or not.
In Perth it's marked down to sell,, in return the price comes down for the breeder to sell then the breeder gets rid of then to get something that he won't lose money on,,, at least break even.
Over east a breeder will see the higher value fish and breed them to make a little pocket money if he's organized.

All what we see here is just old favorites, and if one thinks there are quite a few rare fish here, then they haven't been in it long enough.
Ten years ago here was great,,, the support and spending really kept things alive.
When one hunts a bargain looking through gumtree or going to peoples back yards to buy,,, this is what contributes and fuels the problem. THE PRICE SIMPLY DETERMINES THE EXISTENCE OF FISH, ones passion in the hobby isn't enough to keep it around.
It's the organized outfits that smacks out the numbers and stocks fish through the tough times waiting to put them out again when they will sell.

[silverscreen]

They are worth the price that you are willing to pay and the seller is willing to let them go for.

then tell me this how do you know if you got a bargain...?

 

see this is my point...its very hard to judge

[Anka]

If you feel happy after the sale/purchase isn't that enough? Why does it have to be a bargain?

There doesn't always have to be winners and losers.

[malawiman85]

Mate no different to any animal. You would pay more for a good specimen Than You Would For A Scrawny Imperfect One Generally.
Lfs Will Always Be dearer Because it Is A Primary Means Of Income.
Also I Have Bought Fish cheap In The Past That Have Only Lasted A Couple Days. Everyone Has Their Own justifications For How They Price An Individual Specimen.
On The Other Hand I Used To Breed Birds And There Used To Be A Pretty Good Pricing Guide Published. Not Sure Now Who Developed It But It Was A Good Tool To Use. Probably Harder To Apply To The Aquarium Trade Due To The Variables outlined By Sir anubias Earlier.

[werdna]

then tell me this how do you know if you got a bargain...?

When you look at it. If the price is reasonable in your opinion and the fish looks to be good quality, you are getting a bargain.

[Androo]

On The Other Hand I Used To Breed Birds And There Used To Be A Pretty Good Pricing Guide Published. Not Sure Now Who Developed It But It Was A Good Tool To Use. Probably Harder To Apply To The Aquarium Trade Due To The Variables outlined By Sir anubias Earlier.

I don't see how it would be that hard to come up with a sale guide. (Availablity x difficulty) x size = sale price. This would obviously be numbers that would continuously need revising by senior breeders that have their finger on the pulse and knowledge of a large range of fish. But it wouldn't work due to undercutting to flog them or those that feel their fish are worth so much more after buying there original breeders for exorbitant prices.
Sorry I know the question was to long term fish breeders but as stated its the same for many species

[Peckoltia]

It would be almost impossible to come up with a sale guide. Fish prices drop and increase, sometimes seemingly over night.

 

Who has the time to do all the species available in Australia and amend it on a regular basis. Seems like a pointless waste of time to me.

 

If you are happy with the fish and the price, buy the fish. If you aren't, then don't.

 

edit - spelling

Edited by Peckoltia, 05 August 2013 - 07:56 PM.

[Bickley]

If you have been in the hobby long enough you start to get a rough idea what things are selling for but what there worth varies dramatically in who wants them. If I know something is averaging for $15 each at 4-5cm I'm more then happy to pay double that if I know the quality is far better then most. Same as I'd prefer to deal with people I already know and have had good dealings with even if it cost me a little bit more. Most times cheapest isn't the best as I lernt early in the hobby. Browse though the classifieds see what everyone else is selling them for will give you a rough idea anyway

[Buccal]

I don't see how it would be that hard to come up with a sale guide. (Availablity x difficulty) x size = sale price. This would obviously be numbers that would continuously need revising by senior breeders that have their finger on the pulse and knowledge of a large range of fish. But it wouldn't work due to undercutting to flog them or those that feel their fish are worth so much more after buying there original breeders for exorbitant prices.
Sorry I know the question was to long term fish breeders but as stated its the same for many species

You should have more trust for our top leading 4-5 local stores,,,,, their prices reflect the value quite well.
Peck and Bickley have made some excellent opinions,,,, and I agree full heartedly.
It's just like a lot of other things in life.
A better steak costs more.
A better quality bordercollie costs more.
A bigger or better car with more features cost more.
Why only purchase if it's a bargain ??, like I said before, that contributes to decline in species existence.
This whole game,, the fish hobby is very weird,,, in it's self there are contradictions left right and center but these facts are true.
Some of it gets hard to believe.
Husbandry then freaky retail / wholesale pricing, what a mix.

[Departure]

They are worth the price that you are willing to pay and the seller is willing to let them go for.

 

Hmm I think that was a cop out answer and very cliche.....

[werdna]

Each to their own

[silverscreen]

i dont want people to get me wrong...i am not chasing fish for next to nothing...

 

completly the opposite...i am refering to when selling a fish...

 

like buccal has said the price can affect the industry from the ground up..

 

a few weeks ago i was selling longfin bristlenose fry for $5 each...which at the time i thought was a fair price...they sold like hot cakes.

 

i was spoken to by a few people that i am selling them too cheap and hurting the price and they wont be able to sell theres...at the time i didnt give it much thought.

 

but now i have and if you think about it...its a difficult thing to put a fair and reasonable price on a fish...so as to not be left with fry which is the whole point to breeding unless trying to improve the breed...different point all together...and to not

 

bring down the price of the fish...but what i did notice was alot of the buyers were mums and dads setting up a fish tank with the kids for the first time...which if you think about it is what is going to kept the price and hobbie alive.

 

starts of with a humble bristlenose and ends up with a tank full of exotics.

Edited by silverscreen, 05 August 2013 - 09:11 PM.

[waxy]

Thats a good way of looking at the situation John.

[bigjohnnofish]

as a responsible breeder you need to cull to keep the industry alive....

 

cull anything deformed and of bad quality.... but also cull fish that dont sell at the appropriate price... if you have 50 fry - better off selling 20 best quality fry for $50 each... than selling all 50 fry for $10 each... work it out ... by keeping fish value high you not only make a little $$$ you ensure its future survival....