43 replies to this topic

[sharna3]

Please fill out as much as possible below and give us a description of what is wrong with your fish.

Type of fish: Electric Yellow
Symptoms: Swimming madly in a corkscrew pattern then dying of exhaustion ? ?
Other tank mates: 1 x chinese algae eater (4yo, about 15cm long), 10 ELs (5-12cm) 1 cobalt blue (15cm)
Tank size / capacity: 130L (I am pretty sure)
Type of Food fed: Aqua One floating cichlid pellets
Feeding frequency/amount: once daily - 3 pinches
Substrate: limestone sand
Type of filtration: eheim
Frequency of filter cleans: 2-3mths
Frequency and % volume of water changes: fortnightly - 20%
Last water change: 2 days ago
PH: 7.4
KH:
GH:
Nitrite:
Nitrate: 0
Ammonia:
Phosphate:
Water temp: 26-27 deg
Medications used recently to date: only stresscoat at water changes
Any recent changes..new fish/filters/power outages etc etc: None ?

I just had a fish suddenly appear sick and realised one of its fins had been bitten off, this was about 5 days ago ... and since then 6 other fish have died (not the one with the missing fin). I tested the water and got the above results. It comes on suddenly - eg this morning I checked the tank - all OK - then got home from work and three dead (see attached pic). They look like they've been frightened to death. Any suggestions?? As I don't want to lose them all ..........

Attached Files

•  EL_deaths.jpg   5.78KB   48 downloads

[MrOrange]

You haven't tested the two most important water paramaters... Ammonia and Nitrite... I'd be testing them before anything else

[sharna3]

Ok. I'll need to get a test kit for that. Thanks.

[MrOrange]

Ok. I'll need to get a test kit for that. Thanks.

Might be too late by then if it is poisoning... suggest you change out a very large portion of your water (ie 50%) and stop feeding completely until you can test the water properly.

[sharna3]

I did a large WC on Sunday - usually only do about 20% but did probably 35-40% cause i was worried. I will stop the feeding, grab a test kit tomorrow and see how I go.
Just came out of nowhere... tank has been trouble free for a long time.

[sandgroper]

You can't have 0 nitrate reading in a established tank.

[sharna3]

You can't have 0 nitrate reading in a established tank.

Well that's what the test kit gave? I am in the middle of doing another test now with a new kit in case the solution is off (only about 12mths old tho) will update this post shortly...Other tests I just ran:
pH: 7.4
Nitrite: 0ppm
Ammonia: between 0 & 0.25ppm


Is that ammonia level enough to cause 6 fish to drop? And when they die they are all dying with their mouths absolutely agape.

OK so new test sample is 'cooking' but is already cherry red... so I think I've found my problem. I think the nitrate is going to exceed 160ppm :-(

What are the best treatments? Obviously I am going to do water changes daily (20%) to reduce nitrate levels, and replace the white foam medium in my filter - but what else can I do ?

Edited by sharna3, 30 March 2011 - 06:58 PM.

[sharna3]

Nitrate between 80ppm and 160ppm .

I feel terrible.

I will do water changes - what else can I do ?

[MrOrange]

That's not going to be the problem... 160ppm nitrate wont kill your fish - though it shows you are probably over feeding (presuming you really are doing regular water changes)

Do you have aeration going in to the tank? Any surface agitation?

You haven't sprayed any aeresol's around your tank lately?

Still, I would do a 50%+ water change immediately and dont feed for 3 days.

[tranced]

once you go past 80ppm on the API nitrate test kit, its really hard to tell what the reading is, it could be 80 or 800!! monitor it closely as you do your water changes over the next week, if it doesnt seem to be dropping it could be very high. also i hear that the heavy metals that water conditioners bind up will basically accumulate in your tank, and that bacteria will eventually break them free from the EDTA or whatever, call it 'old tank syndrome'

[sharna3]

The level hasn't seemed to have dropped in the past 3 days - I'm doing water changes every 2 days - 30%. I also haven't fed them since Wed. I think now I know where the nitrates are coming from and why the water changes haven't helped so far.

I have been doing regular water changes but the thing I missed was the filter - I hadn't cleaned it for ages - time just got away from me. And when cleaning it, I replaced the pads but not the ceramic noodles. So today went to my LFS and bought filter medium that specifically removes nitrate, also new noodles, and did a filter clean.

Obviously I'm an amatuer but I do try to learn from my mistakes - I am going on water changes every 2 weeks - 25% and filter clean / pad replacement every 6 mths. I am figuring that is not frequent enough - how often should I do this?

And - aeration - I have two airstones, one at each end of the tank, plus the filter return breaks the surface. Is this enough air/movement?

Right now, the fish are a lot more active than they have been which I am hoping is a positive sign. THe ELs are teasing the Chinese Algae Eater again so that's nice to see.

Any further advice would be much appreciated.

Edited by sharna3, 02 April 2011 - 01:21 PM.

[MrOrange]

That sounds pretty weird - have you tested your tap water (or whatever water you're filling the tank with) for nitrates?

Nitrates are a direct result of the amount of food you put in - if you've done all those water changes and still very high nitrates then I'm not surprised the fish were not happy. Did your water have a yellow tinge?

What I would do, get your water tested at LFS to rule out any error on your part, test your tap water, change out 50% of your water until you're back under 40ppm nitrates (do that multiple times if needed) moving forward, reduce the amount of feed you're giving the fish and increase the frequency of your water changes to 30% weekly/fortnightly.

You're tank and maintenance schedule are just a bit off balance atm, once you get it back on track your fish will be much happier IMO

[sharna3]

That sounds pretty weird - have you tested your tap water (or whatever water you're filling the tank with) for nitrates?

Nitrates are a direct result of the amount of food you put in - if you've done all those water changes and still very high nitrates then I'm not surprised the fish were not happy. Did your water have a yellow tinge?

What I would do, get your water tested at LFS to rule out any error on your part, test your tap water, change out 50% of your water until you're back under 40ppm nitrates (do that multiple times if needed) moving forward, reduce the amount of feed you're giving the fish and increase the frequency of your water changes to 30% weekly/fortnightly.

You're tank and maintenance schedule are just a bit off balance atm, once you get it back on track your fish will be much happier IMO

I did test my tap water when I got home from LFS - and it came up at 0 nitrates. I am going to retest the aquarium tonight and if no change still to nitrate level, take a water sample to my LFS for them to test in case my test kit is faulty.

The filter was very, very dirty though - wouldn't that have contributed? Plus, my ELs bred a lot, so I think I had too many fish in the tank. Population is certainly thinned now :-(

[Bowdy]

I have been doing regular water changes but the thing I missed was the filter - I hadn't cleaned it for ages - time just got away from me. And when cleaning it, I replaced the pads but not the ceramic noodles. So today went to my LFS and bought filter medium that specifically removes nitrate, also new noodles, and did a filter clean.

Did you replace all the media in your filter when you cleaned it ??
May be wrong but I would think the noodles would never need replacing just cleaned with tank water.
Hope it works out man.
Cheers.

[sharna3]

Did you replace all the media in your filter when you cleaned it ??
May be wrong but I would think the noodles would never need replacing just cleaned with tank water.
Hope it works out man.
Cheers.

I didn't replace the "coarse" filter pad - I just rinsed it clean. Everything else I replaced.

[Bowdy]

Did you rinse with tank water or tap water.
Your filter may not be cycled anymore with all that new media. Just a thort someone more experienced may have more info.
Cheers.

[sandgroper]

You don't change the media just rinse in tank water, the media (ceramic noodles) is where the good bateria live. You now may go through a cycling period, this will stress the fish.

[MrOrange]

I didn't replace the "coarse" filter pad - I just rinsed it clean. Everything else I replaced.

Ahhh man, what the?!! What sort of filter is this?

All the bacteria live in the filter media, if you've just replaced this with fresh stuff then you're in a really bad situation right now.

[sharna3]

Ahhh man, what the?!! What sort of filter is this?

All the bacteria live in the filter media, if you've just replaced this with fresh stuff then you're in a really bad situation right now.

Cr@p. Really???? The lfs said to change the noodles. Well I went in, said this is my problem and this is the next step I am planning on taking, and they were like "yep", only suggestion they gave was make sure i clean gravel thoroughly when I water change. They're pretty good so I guess I didn't explain enough / properly.
Filter is eheim canister.
$hit $hit $hit. I did a 50% water chg this morning, nitrate levels no better straight after. About to test again.
Can I set up a temporary tank, run it 24 hrs then trfr fish to that, til I get my tank right? Or will that be just as bad for them?

Edited by sharna3, 03 April 2011 - 02:00 PM.

[MrOrange]

What you've done by replacing the noodles is thrown out the vast majority of your bacteria colony, the one's responsible for converting ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate. You now must perform water changes to remove these toxins from the water manually until such a time the bacteria colony has established itself again - basically you now need to cycle your tank again.

It's not the end of the world, it just needs to be monitored carefully and religously - every day you need to check your water for ammonia and nitrite and perform water changes / adjust feeding accordingly.

My advice to you is this;

Feed your fish once every 3 days
Check ammonia & nitrite daily - if either exceeds 0.5ppm perform a water change to get it back under 0.5ppm
Once you stop seeing ammonia / nitrite, increase the feed frequency to once every 2 days
Check ammonia & nitrite daily - if either exceeds 0.5ppm perform a water change to get it back under 0.5ppm
Once you stop seeing ammonia / nitrite, increase the feed frequency to every day
Check ammonia & nitrite daily - if either exceeds 0.5ppm perform a water change to get it back under 0.5ppm
Once you stop seeing ammonia / nitrite your tank is fully cycled again for your bio-load

The above is alot of work but it'll ensure your fish won't be stressed or killed by ammonia / nitrite poisoning. If you stick to the feed schedules above you won't have to perform too many water changes. The whole process will take around 3 weeks to complete.

No idea why the LFS suggested you replace your filter media.