20 replies to this topic

[MilkyJoe]

Hey guys, here's my dilemma. I have been doing 1/3 water changes on my two tanks (roughly 130l change all up) and Im sick of doing this bucket by bucket!

I don't own any overly fussy fish, bristlenose and 397's, some black knifes and oscars etc... My question is, instead of dosing each bucket is there a problem with filling my tank up from the hose and then dosing for chlorine directly into the tank?
I've heard the biggest problem is the chlorine killing the bacteria in the filter, if that's the case can I not just turn my filter off during water changes?

Really just trying to avoid buying a pump/container as I'd have to fork out a fair bit to get enough power to pump the water upstairs.

Thanks guys!

Kieran.

[Neddy]

Go to aquotix get a cheap power head and a hose from bunnings, join together and turn it on. I use a 1000lph and it works fine;)...also could take your empty buckets upstairs then fill them up via hose?

Edited by Neddy, 08 February 2011 - 05:19 PM.

[MilkyJoe]

hmm I did try that, think my powerhead is 600lph and I was trying to pump like 4-5 meters from my bath to tank with no luck! Think 1000lph would do the job?

[Neddy]

Use the power head to drain and then the hose to fill the buckets to treat before filling tanks;)

[gilz]

A lot of people do just go straight in through the hose. Guys at aquotix told me it's fine with my malawis. I think you're not meant to with discus??
I just turn the hose on pretty slowly to reduce any sudden water changes

[MilkyJoe]

Oh i have no problem with draining, hose out my door hanging off balcony to create a siphon... brilliant way to water the garden! Filling buckets is easy as the bathroom is next door its just the constant lifting of buckets that's doing my back in!

[gilz]

Yeah I use to do my water changes with a 25l bucket. Lots of fun haha
Hence the change to the hose

[Cawdor]

I have a double tap on my cold water tap, one goes to my washing machine the other has a hose clip connection. I use a drinking water grade hose to connect and then pump water back into my tanks. I dose dechlorinator beforehand.

The only problem is during winter when the water out of the tap is very cold and drops the temp in the tanks a lot when doing large changes. So do smaller changes but more often during winter.

To drain the tanks fast I have built a draining system that is run by a 3500L/h pump, makes my water changes so much quicker!

[MilkyJoe]

Brilliant, thanks guys! You may have just spared me a few hernias! =D

Appreciated!

Kieran.

[Fish Antics]

As suggested already a hose to drain and fill is perfect option. With smaller level water changes under 30% I have never had an issue with adding the dechlorinator to the tank first and filling directly from the hose to the tank. As Tim suggested in Winter smaller water changes help with the tempreture drop with adding cold water.

Tony

[STEVEGREEN]

buckets ....... pre treating water........... you've got to be kidding.

every Sunday i drop 400L of water from my 3 tanks via a $8 laundry hose from bunnings and a pvc neck adaptor.

i run the hose for a few minutes ( water dry patches on the lawn ) then straight into my tanks , add some Prime , Salt and a few other goodies and thats it.

Cheers
Steve Green

[Bernie]

Yeah we just syphon the water out into buckets or direct to ground if going outside the shed and then fill the tanks directly with the hose.
Like Steve said, we make sure to let the hose run a bit first before filling the tanks.

We've never had any problems. Just put the water conditioner into the tank directly.

[MilkyJoe]

Big relief, and thanks for the fast responses as I was midwater change!

Only wish I'd asked soon, I wont be believing everything google tells me!

[Juls]

When considering your water changes, it's important to have a good idea of why your doing it and how it's effecting your tank.

Things you should know.

1. The PH of your tank Water
2. The Temp of your tank water.
3. The Dissolved Nitrates of the tank water before the water change.

You will also need,

1. A knowledge of your desired nitrate level, Both minimum and Maximum.
2. The PH, and Nitrates of your tap water on said day of water change.

You probably already know most of what i'm going to say, but i'll say it for some newbies sake,

The reason your water changing is one of a few reasons, Number one is to reduce the amount of dissolved "Nitrate" in your tank water, which is a byproduct of the filter converting the ammonia made by the fishes poop and wizz, to Nitrite and then finally Nitrate. Nitrate cannot be removed by a normal filter, so we have to "Dilute" Nitrate by doing water changes.

Water changes also reintroduce minerals that are lost through the fish taking them up and the oxygen transfer/evaporation, they also help maintain a stable PH. Minerals and other important micronutrients reintroduced by water changes are both important for fish and plants, in some cases water changes are as important or more important in planted tanks, and can help avoid the need for expensive additives.

Before you consider what your water change schedule is, you need to understand the biology of your tank, and more importantly how quickly the buildup of Nitrates is occuring.

Many keepers of larger fish keepers fail to realise that there water quality has deteriated past the point of no return within just a few weeks, luckily larger fish tend to be more capable of coping with excessive dissolved nitrate much better than smaller more sensitive aquarium species.

If you don't already have a Nitrate Test Kit, Get one.

an acceptable nitrate level for Non planted, Malawi or South American Cichlids (this is generalized, some species require lower, please consider which fish you have properly) would be a max average of 40ppm, Preferably around the 20ppm would be better, in a Ideal world 0ppm nitrates would be fantastic, but it just doesn't happen unless the tank is heavily planted with only a few small fish.

So, first thing you need to know before doing a water change is, What is my Nitrate level,

Lets say it's 30ppm, and I want it to be 20ppm after a water change,
Check your Water supply, it should be 0ppm, it is at my place at least.

Should your water supply be 0 Nitrates, then a 1/3 water change would net you a 10ppm reduction in nitrates approximately,

However lets say your nitrates are 60ppm, and we want 20ppm, then 2/3 would be neccessary, I do find at this point though that 2/3 often
is not enough, if you do the change, then check an hour later and it's still 30-40ppm, then it's possible that both your filters and gravel could also need cleaning.

In any which case, you should check your Nitrates, before your water change, several hours after the water change, and again say after 7 days, or 14, or whatever your water change frequency is. This will give you a idea of how quickly your tank is making nitrates, and then you can work out if you water change schedule is not enough, or too frequent, and how much you should be changing.

Larger water changes are generally always better as long as you can both Match the water temperature of the tank to what your adding, and approximately match the PH that your adding.

The water temp can simply be done at the tap by hooking up inside the house, now many are going to go nuts here and worry about metals from the hot water system, Yes they can be a problem in very old houses, but generally speaking they won't be a problem with 99.99% of fish, and products like PRIME or SAFE or ALPHA will generally bind these heavy metals making them harmless.

If your keeping inverts, then the metals thing must be taken more seriously, but I've never had a issue, even doing 50% water changes straight out of the hot tap into the tank, I use Copper absorbing material in my filter and double treat all my water with Alpha, but this is only on my invert tanks. (there are people who just keep small tanks with shrimps and run plain sponge filters that have killed all there shrimps by doing water changes from the tap and hot water system, carefully consider your own scenario before any particular action is taken.)

For African's and Americans this is really a non issue.

If your keeping african's you may be using a buffer to crank up the PH, which makes large water changes more of a issue, but it doesn't have to be, I always did 50% on my Malawi tanks and simply mixed enough buffer in a bucket and added it as the tank filled up, treat the tank with dechlorinator before you start filling, then again after you finished filling, on BOTH occasions you treat the entire volume of the tank, Products like Prime and Alpha can be dosed up to 4 Times required dose safely, try not to drop the whole bottle in.

At this point if your Finding it too difficult to do weekly water changes, you either need to reduce stocking levels or do larger water changes or setup some method of nitrate reduction, (this doesn't eliminate water changes, you still need to replenish minerals and micronutrients).

I have kept a few planted tanks where my stocking levels seemed "extreme" up around the 3" of fish per litre area, (around 300 fish, and several thousand shrimp per 500L) and never managed to get a nitrate reading, in the end i ended up buying nitrogen to try and deal with algae and pouring it in the tank to get the levels up to 10ppm. (which sorted out my algae by getting the ratio of nitrogen to phosphate right).

You might think thats impossible, but you have to consider what fish your keeping, the 1" per gallon rule doesn't work anywhere, my secret was simply that none of my fish where longer than about 4-5cm, a majority under 2-3cm.

If you consider body mass, a single 12" Oscar, would have a similar body "mass" to about 300-400 Neon tetras. Now 300-400 Neon tetras is 400" of fish, yet produce a similar amount of physical waste as one 12" Oscar.

So to consider which is wrong, keeping one 12" oscar in 400L or water, or 400 Neon Tetras in 400L of water?

Big fish produce huge amounts of waste, as such require more water changes, larger ones more often. I gave up discus could i couldn't be bothered dealing with the 10ppm nitrate rise per week and the required 70% water changes. I had no interest in keeping them as bare bottom breeders at the time, and as a display become too time intensive and expensive to feed so I moved on to something that suited me.

Now all this long windedness i apologize for,

to answer your question, yes empty the water out, plug the tap onto the tank, treat the tank with dechlorinator, fill it up, treat it again, done.

If you want a Higher speed water changer, i have a spare one i made, that can go on a hose, or onto a larger waste water hose to go on the tap in the kitchen, you can have for $20 (cost more than this to make it.) Or i can show you it and you can make your own.

Juls

Edited by Juls, 08 February 2011 - 07:22 PM.

[MilkyJoe]

Hey Juls, wow thanks heaps for that bounty of info! That should be in a sticky thread if it already isn't!
As for all the vital levels, PH, Nitrate/Nitrite, Ammonia etc I believe I am all good in that regard. How often would you suggest testing? I've been testing the water maybe every 3 weeks or so unless something seems amiss.

My tanks have been running for over a year now and the fish seem happy, now my back will be too!

Im quite interested in this high speed water changer, can you explain it a little more so I can see if it will be of benefit? I don't mind siphoning taking time as I usually gravel vac/siphon in one.

Cheers,
Kieran.

[Barf]

Thanks Juls, that was good reading (seems so simple put like that), would be good pinned .

[Juls]

Once the tank is cycled unless something is amiss I don't check my water either but it's good practice to check your nitrates to work out what your nitrate rise is and work out a suitable water change plan. Or alter your tank to suit your water change plan.

My water changer is simply a hang on pipe with a tap, but I can attach any number of fittings at either end (because either end is threaded) to empty, fill, vaccum or otherwise. I use wider piping so I can use the larger waste water hoses which means syphoning out is about three times faster than a normal garden hose.

Of course refilling is only as quick as your tap.

The wide waste water hose end fits well on my kitchen tap, with the use of a hose clamp with a finger tightener on it it connects up easily.

Juls

[MilkyJoe]

Ah I see, I have already made myself a hang on pipe with a hose fitting but have stopped using it as my vac also has a hose fitting. Will have to add a ball valve to it then it would be perfect for filling the tanks, good idea!

[Den]

This may help you:

http://www.perthcich...showtopic=39500


Cheers
Den

Edited by Den, 09 February 2011 - 01:22 PM.

[uppo]

buckets ....... pre treating water........... you've got to be kidding.

every Sunday i drop 400L of water from my 3 tanks via a $8 laundry hose from bunnings and a pvc neck adaptor.

i run the hose for a few minutes ( water dry patches on the lawn ) then straight into my tanks , add some Prime , Salt and a few other goodies and thats it.

Cheers
Steve Green

- yep- i v been doing pretty much the same thing for years with out any issues- just dont get distracted!! over flowing fish tanks is not fun...
(i just add a good hit of water ager as i start the fill- then add salts ect as i go)

Edited by uppo, 11 March 2011 - 09:07 PM.