22 replies to this topic

[Warby]

Hey All,

A while ago I noticed a piece of driftwood I introduced to the tank started growing some black hair algae right up near the water's surface (this piece goes from the gravel to the water surface) which, in all honesty, I thought didn't look too bad as it provided a bit of "life" to the otherwise lifeless wood.. I figured that this was only growing there since it was the highest point in the tank and as such had the brightest light, so didn't worry about it spreading.. now though, it has spread to alot of my plants and is starting to look unsightly..

I have been googling around and for the most part the only "successful" method of stopping it spreading further appears to be increasing co2. I only have a DIY yeast co2 setup on this tank and am really not interested in spending $$ on a pressurised system, i simply am not interested enough in plants to spend that much money on them.. so was wondering what else people could recommend? Squirting directly with excel seems to work, but from what I can gather isn't really a solution and will just lead to more $$ constantly buying more excel to kill the algae that pops up.. Also I guess most importantly, what causes the BBA and what can be done to avoid it's return once it has all been eliminated?

I am planning to dip all the plants & driftwood in a bleach solution this weekend to kill off what I can, but I don't want to be pulling my tank apart every 2-3 months just to fight algae..


Cheers,


Dave

[kevy73]

Go to your chemist and buy some liquid peroxide. Squirt directly onto the algae is 1 solution. Dino spit used the same way is another.

Or you could turn off your co2 and completely black out your tank for 10 days or so - Wrapping it in news paper should do the trick. The complete lack of light should be enough to kill off any algae... this may have some negative effects on your plants too, but usually they will come back.

Hope that helps.

[Warby]

Cheers Kev, but from what I've read the blackout doesn't work on this variety of algae.. I'm weary of using something like peroxide in the tank, won't this have some negative affect on fish?

-Dave

[kevy73]

Peroxide is just H202... I am no chemist, but from what I have seen when you squirt it directly onto the plants, the extra oxygen atom is released and it bubbles a little and what is left is plain H20...

If someone can correct me...

I have used it plenty of times in my Discus planted tank without ill affect. Just make sure it is liquid hydrogen peroxide. My wife is a hairdresser and has copious amounts of Cream of Peroxide - sadly I can't use that... *sigh*

www.aquariumlife.com is also good for advice on algae and planted tanks. I thought I had read somewhere on that site someone had used the blackout method successfully against BBA... but I may be mistaken

[Warby]

Perhaps they did use the blackout method successfully on BBA Kev, wouldn't be the first time that someone's experience differs from the google "fact" I can't access AL at work tho due to the proxy settings.. meh heh

As to what you said about the peroxide, that doesn't sound so bad then heh.. Might have a look at the chemist on the way home today..

Cheers

[dazzabozza]

Also worthwhile testing your phosphate levels if you haven't already done so.

Daz

[Tucunare]

this one im no expert on but if its black beard your magnesium level may be to high. again im no expert on plants/algae though someone once told me that seachem flourish can cause it due to the high magnesium content, where as API plant food wont as it contained no magnesium??????

[Iamsam]

Not a permant solution but works great to kill the algea of is, when you do a water change drop your water level real low, than put stress coat on all the exposed hair algea, leave it for say 10-15 minutes and it will start going a red colour which means its dieing of. the longer you leave it the better, than refill the tank and you will notice that the algea will be a lovely bright red, its dead and will drop off or any catfish etc. will eat it off.
however the BBA is more than likely to come back in a matter of weeks/months.

[Jezza]

i used to have a major BBA problem. i used dino-spit (same as excel) and it work to some degree. then i started using H2O2 and now it is totally under control. there is a few odd spots here and there but it never gets out of control. and if it does i just squirt some more H2O2 onto it and its dead in a few minutes.
Keeping your CO2 levels up is good at keeping it at bad also...

hth
jeremy

[Warby]

Cheers for the thoughts guys... Tucunare, it actually seems to have gotten worse since I switched to API plant food from *scratches head* umm I think a Sera product.. Decision has been made to shut this tank down within the next week or so anyway, so think I'll just let the algae enjoy what's left of it's days haha

Cheers for the info guys, no doubt it will come in handy again in the future


-Dave

[Cicolid]

I was advised to use "Pondcare" "Simply-clear", it has no effect whatsoever. This could have been due to the fact that all of plants were covered in it.

I was then told that BBA is caused by high Phosphate levels, so I am now trying a bag of Phos-Guard in my canister filter. It has been in there 2 weeks but no noticeable difference, but the level dropped from 3 to 1.5.

As most of my plants are attached to wood or rocks & ended up just taking them all out and putting them in a tank without fish, so there is no Phosphate from feeding.

Sorry if this is not much help to you, but I thought I would just let you know what I have tried.

Col

[Blackcats]

Reducing the Phosphate levels also worked for me.
Added "Aqua Medic Antiphos" to the canister.
This reduced the Phosphate right down but it took a few weeks to notice the algae dying off.
Still some traces here and there but it isn't thriving like before.

Harry

[Mr_docfish]

I have advised many people in the past about reducing the phosphate to reduce the growth of BBA..... Blackcats included .... and the results speak for themselves.... it is a long term solution, killing it off with H2O2 or glutalaldehyde (dino spit/SC excel) is only short term.
Pondcare 'simply clear' is a bacteria that consumes phosphates - keep adding Col, it until the PO4 levels go under 0.5ppm... give it a couple of weeks and you will see a slow down in the growth of BBA particularly on the new leaves of the plants... the old growth of BBA will continue to stay for months, unless you use the above products to kill the old stuff off.
Phosphate absorbers are the best for low levels of PO4, for levels above 2ppm, you should use Sera phosvec, and then have the PO4 absorbers in the filter to keep the PO4 levels down.
Keep the introduction of PO4 in the tank to a minimum, avoid 7.0 / 6.5 buffers, this includes discus buffers and pH down powders.... rinse the packing water off frozen bloodworms before adding to the tank and avoid/minimize the use of tablet and wafer type foods.

[Warby]

Awesome info there Docfish.. I'd say it was the introduction of phosphate through a pH buffer that caused mine in the first place, because now that I think about it it would have been about the time I started using Wardley's 3 in 1 water conditioner/6.5 pH buffer that I started getting the BBA..

-Dave

[Matt_1]

The reason I think H2O2 kills the algae is it is an EXTREMELY exothermic reaction.
When released into the aquarium it probably spontaneously undergoes:

2H2O2(aq) --> 2H20(l) + O2(g)

This reaction releases ridiculous amount of energy to the point where the water must just about boil (I've seen it used in lab experiments).

I would be wary of it for this reason and it is also a VERY strong oxidising agent, meaning if any of your fish swam near it when applying it is possible they could recieve SEVERE burns.

I would be more inclined to simply squirt boiling water onto the algae growth.

[Mr_docfish]

The reason I think H2O2 kills the algae is it is an EXTREMELY exothermic reaction.
When released into the aquarium it probably spontaneously undergoes:

2H2O2(aq) --> 2H20(l) + O2(g)

This reaction releases ridiculous amount of energy to the point where the water must just about boil (I've seen it used in lab experiments).

I would be wary of it for this reason and it is also a VERY strong oxidising agent, meaning if any of your fish swam near it when applying it is possible they could recieve SEVERE burns.

I would be more inclined to simply squirt boiling water onto the algae growth.

This is not the case considering the small amount added to the aquarium.... have done it in many tanks for quite some time and have not lost a fish.

The method of killing algae (and some plants) by addition of H2O2 is a plant physiology one..... consider that all plants as they photosynthesise produce oxygen - this is a by product for them and it is dangerous in large amounts, as excess oxygen can cause damage to the cell wall... plants produce enzymes like peroxidase to protect itself from peroxides.... algae do so as well, but not as well as most higher order plants, so the algae are most at risk in the presence of excess peroxide.
There is a fine line between enough and too much, so it should not be used unless you know what you are doing, or have had help from those that have used it before....

[sydad]

The reason I think H2O2 kills the algae is it is an EXTREMELY exothermic reaction.
When released into the aquarium it probably spontaneously undergoes:

2H2O2(aq) --> 2H20(l) + O2(g)

This reaction releases ridiculous amount of energy to the point where the water must just about boil (I've seen it used in lab experiments).

I would be wary of it for this reason and it is also a VERY strong oxidising agent, meaning if any of your fish swam near it when applying it is possible they could receive SEVERE burns.

I would be more inclined to simply squirt boiling water onto the algae growth.

Any exotherm from hydrogen peroxide solution would, as Oliver said, be insignificant since the solution commonly used is 3% (10 volume). This is too low a concentration to have extreme exothermic reactions.

The reaction you have seen is more due to rapid release of oxygen, probably from a more concentrated solution. Hydrogen peroxide (pure or 100%) is an extremely unstable liquid, and is usually supplied for "household" use at 3% concentration in water. It can be purchased from chemical suppliers at 30% concentration (100 volume), usually also containing a stabiliser, but should be considered too dangerous to handle unless trained in handling hazardous chemicals as it can cause severe burns, and unless kept under refrigeration may spontaneously degrade, stabiliser notwithstanding, giving rise to free oxygen gas, with a corresponding rise in pressure that, in a sealed container, may be sufficient to cause the container to explode. Only a certified lunatic would attempt to use 30% hydrogen peroxide directly in the aquarium.

The use of "boiling" water directly into an aquarium is similarly a likely recipe for disaster unless very judiciously handled.

The 3% peroxide solution is on the other hand, safe and efficaceous if used with reasonable care.

By the way Oliver, the enzyme is not peroxidase, but catalase.

Syd.

[Cicolid]

Oliver you say "Pondcare 'simply clear' is a bacteria that consumes phosphates - keep adding Col, it until the PO4 levels go under 0.5ppm... give it a couple of weeks and you will see a slow down in the growth of BBA particularly on the new leaves of the plants... the old growth of BBA will continue to stay for months, unless you use the above products to kill the old stuff off."

I think that due to the combination of how bad the affected plants looked with BBA, plus me being impatient lead me to cease treatment with that product. Plus the fact that I was getting it in neck from Lyn about how bad the tank looked.

When I considered the above points I just took the easy way out and removed the affected plants, these have now been placed in a container of clean water and placed in the sun.

As a side question :- Could either the Pondclear or Phosguard cause the death of our 10 inch Black Ghost ? He seemed to be stressed out since I started treating the BBA.

Cheers
Col

[Mr_docfish]

Pondcare Simplyclear was developed to be used in ponds originally, but I have used it in sensitive tanks (with shrimp) and I have used it in our recirculating systems (with ghost knives in it) with no ill effect to any tank inhabitants or filter bacteria.
Phosguard I have no experience with (I have always found similar but cheaper alternatives to all the Seachem products) but it does state on their web site "Over treating is not recommended".....
I cant say for sure what caused the problems with your ghost knife, but consider maybe a reaction with one or more other products in the aquarium at the time.... if any fish show a negative reaction after the addition of any product, immediately water change the tank, it may not necessarily be the product being used, it might just be a reaction with other water conditions or chemicals in the tank at the time... you never know.

By the way Oliver, the enzyme is not peroxidase, but catalase.
Syd.

Damn caught out again... I was taking a guess, it sounded good at the time........hehehe...... thanks for the correction Syd, saved me from having to google it....

Oliver

[Krystal]

Glutathione protects cells in several ways. It neutralizes oxygen molecules before they can harm cells. Together with selenium, it forms the enzyme glutathione peroxidase, which neutralizes hydrogen peroxide. It is also a component of another antioxidant enzyme, glutathione-S-transferase, which is a broad-spectrum liver-detoxifying enzyme.

http://doh.gov.ph/pi...Headline09.html

But...catalase is an enzyme found in most living organisms which are exposed to oxygen, where it functions to catalyze the decomposition of hydrogen peroxide to water and oxygen.

So does glutathione peroxidase neutralise hydrogen peroxide whereas the enzyme catalase 'decomposes' it to water and oxygen? Or did i just ask a stupid question?