18 replies to this topic

[Dr Cucumber]

Hi Guys,

Just wanted to report in on the progress of my new planted tank. You may remember that I asked for advice on laterite and lighting a few weeks back.

5ftX18X18 (315 litres)
2X 40 watt tubes (one power glo, one resun grow light)
2X 38 watt tri phos broad spectrum tubes
DIY CO2 kit
Laterite substrate fertiliser
28 degrees
Carbonate hardness 5 german degrees
pH 7-7.5 (due to there being coral in the cannister filter) - the CO2 seems to reduce this though - especially in the mornings.

Yes, I managed to squeeze a 4th tube on after recieving advice on this forum. Anymore than this would start getting too costly. Does anyone knwo how much Western Power charge per KW hour these days??? It used to be a dollar about 5 years ago.

I used 1kg of laterite as substrate fertilizer (the gravel is around 12 cm deep at the back and 6 cm at the front).

The plants (Vallis at the back, Amazon Swords and taller crypts in the middle) are going well so far. Lots of growth in the Vallis and crypts. Although I am having a bit of trouble with the Java fern - it seems to be browning off a few days after going into the tank. Its not algae - I know this for sure. The leaves first turn clear then turn brown and then disintergrate. I was told they were being burnt by the light as they were very close to the top of the tank - attached to drift wood. I am not sure about this as I have read conflicting reports that Java fern loves strong light in conjunction with CO2. Can anyone confirm this - the java frn seems to be doing much better since I blocked some of the light with paper on top of the cover glass. Seems to confirm that light was a problem really.

I have also noticed some filamentous type algae growing on the tips of some of the crypt and sword leaves. However, it looks more robust than normal thread algae. It is dark green and is even branching in some of the larger threads. I have never seen this before. Any ideas on this - will Siamese flying fow fish eat this type of algae??

I am sorry I do not have any pictures at this stage, but all looks OK after a week and a half. I used the cannister filter from my last tank so hopefully this will limit, if not avoid, the nitrogen cycle probs experienced in many new tanks.

Please, let me know if you have answers to any of my questions,

cheers,

Dr Cuc.

[mtchye]

Hi,

Congrats on the tank. First of all I'm pretty sure the Java fern problem was nothing to do with the lights. Most java ferns and in fact most of the plants you can get in stores are grown emersed at the farms. Once submersed some of them like the java fern will lose most of their original leaves and then slowly grow new submersed leaves. Sometimes these submersed leaves look very different to the emersed ones.

As for your algae problem - its hard to say what it is without a picture. Still, if it isn't rampant you are doing OK. Are you dosing nutrients already? Might be an idea if you have lots of fast growing plants and co2 going as if you develop a deficiency your algal problems may increase.

In a planted tank it is hard to get the filter cycled if you have a lot of plants. Plants uptake ammonia preferentially to nitrates and this seems to slow down the cycling process. HOwever it makes the cycling a lot safer too as they are a very efficient filter in themselves. If your canister was already cycled in the first place, then I don't think your fish have anything to worry about, unless they are overfed/overstocked. I have never had any problems with the nitrogenous byproducts in a planted tank- usually they are the most stable and healthy.

Don't worry, the plants will come good in time. Sounds like you are doing many things right.

How bout some pics?
Cheers
Vincent

[Graeme]

Hi ,
just my own observation with the java fern,I do agree with you about it being "burnt " from the light.I have Java in my planted tank and the plant growing closest to the light does seem to burn at times.The plants deeper dont seem too, all the java still look good and grow.Just the deeper ones i have are lighter green.I also managed to brown some by leaving it out of the tank too long.Could be a coincidence but .......... :roll:
good luck with your plants
Graeme

[anchar]

I have found that if the java fern grows out of the water, it is ok. If you re-position one that was submerged so that is now out of the water, it goes dry and crispy...

merjo

[duck]

The ph drop in the morning is due to the plants give off co2 during the night, not o2
Java fern is a low light plant,grows slow aswell.

Been a new tank you a likely to get some sort of algae until it settles down, Patience is the key.
Don't get to carried away with adding too much ferts Low light tank need's less fert's, higher the lighting the more fert's needed, do test the water for at least phosphate's and nitrate's, 0.5-1ppm of phosphate's and nitrate's @10ppm.
I have found just keeping these 2 in some sort of balance i have now very little to no algea at all,But my tank in total has been set up for nearly 9 month's now
I have had flying fox,siamese Algea eaters but for me i found no help at all unless you let them starve a little but then all my other fish suffer.

[Dr Cucumber]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for that. I am happy to report that the Java fern is now growing nicely. Some of the younger leaves which were light green in colour are turning a nice rich dark green colour and I have even noticed small plants (new frons) beginning to sprout. You are right that many plants, such as jave fern, certain anubias, swords are grown in humid enviros out of the water before arriving in the local fish stores and hence take some adjusting once submerged....this makes a lot of sense.

I recently purchased 3 siamese algae eaters and they to have settled in nicely. They began eating some of the smaller threads of algae, which I have since discovered is black brush aka black beard algae ( a type of red algae really), but only after a few days of not feeding the tank. Dont worry the other occupants had had a very big feed of brine shrimp before the algae eaters went in - so they are not starving. I am pretty sure it is safe to not feed fish in planted aquarium for days at a time anyway. Nearly all fish (pure carnivours aside) subsist by picking at threads of algae and bits of detritus (waste organic material). The crypts continue to grow quickly, although I have had many leaves fall of and rot away. These leaves are quickly replaced by new growth however.

I have noticed that some of the crypt leaves have turned a reddish colour and wonder if this means the roots have finlly penetrated the iron rich laterite layer of gravel - can anyone confirm????

I am also chasing some pygmy sword chain for the fore ground - can anyone tell me where I can get some in Perth????

cheers,

Glenn

[mtchye]

Hi Glenn

Sounds like you are doing all right. As for the chain sword, its fairly easy to get from aquarium society members if you are nice I'm sure someone will chime in with an offer before long - i used to have some but was tired of trimming/pulling them out as they get pretty rampant in good conditions.

The crypts turning red and growing nice big leaves would be a good sign. On the other hand many plants turn red and grow small leaves when nitrogen deficient. Just observe and see I guess and the great thing about crypts is you can poke in some fert sticks anytime you see a deficiency and they will be right for months.

Cheers
Vincent

[Brett]

Hi Glen,

Glad to hear the tank is doing well.

Have got what was given to me as Pygmy chain sword, which I presume is E. tenellus. Have just returned from holidays and it is all a bit of a sorry mess at the moment and rather algea infested. Still you are welcome to some if you want. You could always give it the bleach treatment, as Vince said, it is pretty tough and will bounce back quickly in good conditions.

Cheers
Brett

[Dr Cucumber]

Thanks Brett, but I am right for now. I did manage to pick up some pigmy sword the other day and it is already sending out runners - so I shouldn't be too long before it starts running rampant.

The tank has been set up just over four weeks now and I was wondering whether it is time to undertake the first water change. How much water should you normally change in a planted tank - is it still around 20 - 30 % per fortnight?? Also, should you re-dose the tank with liquid nutrients at every water change or are nutrients something that should be replenished once per week??

cheers,

Glenn

[duck]

Hi
30-50% water change everyweek or 50% every 2 weeks.
Dose at water change's, but test the water so you don't get a build up of nutrients.

Even with a 50% water change's every week you still can get a build up of nutrients which will lead to algea before you know it, Then trying to get it back into balance can be a nightmare.

[Brett]

Hi Glen,

Glad the tank is going well and you were able to source some non-algea infested pygmy chain swords.

I tend not to follow the large water change methods proposed by Duck.

You may find this post by Clint useful http://p088.ezboard....picID=268.topic

It outlined some options and opinions including my current practice.

Cheers
Brett

[Dr Cucumber]

Hi all, the tank is still going along nicely, evidenced by the fact that I am forever trimming the faster growing species of plants.

Although I currently have an issue with the mix of sugar, water and yeast that I am using in my DIY CO2 kit. To a 5 ltr container I add 3 cups of tepid water, 3 cups of sugar and 0.5 sachet of 'Defiance' brand dry yeast. Each sachet is 8 g. I mix the yeast with a small amount of water before hand and stir it rapidly to aerate and hence activate it.

The CO2 bubbles take around 12 hous to get going, but once they start...well, they really start - resembling the blast of a jet boat. After a good period of rapid bubbling (around 12 hours) the bubbles subside to a nice steady stream before petering out after day 4.

Can anyone suggest an improved sugar/water/yeast mix?? To reitterate, I have a 5 litre container. See posts above for tank specs.

I think the lack of CO2 has caused some stress to my C. wendtii. Some of its bigger leaves fell off. Though smaller leaves are growing well.

Best regards,

DC

[TimPerthWA]

DC

Most of my crypts lost every leaf when I added a pressurised Co2 system.

They bounced back a couple of weeks later and have never looked better, my thoughts were it was the change in water chemistry so perhaps either the addition or reduction in Co2 is the cause.

rgds, Tim

[Brett]

For more than you ever wanted to know about DIY CO2 try this http://www.qsl.net/w...ria/diyco2.html

Cheers
Brett

[duck]

Cut the sugar to halve the amount to the water this should give you a more constant and for longer.
I use roughly 4cups water to 2 cups sugar about 10 grams yeast it gives me a few weeks.

[sydad]

Hi Dr Cuc

To answer your question about Western Power tariffs. A unit (ie one Kw hour)costs about 13 cents. This equates to approximately one dollar per watt per year. In other words to run a 40 watt fluoro tube for 12 hours a day, 365 days a year, you are looking at about $20.

[Dr Cucumber]

Thanks for the info,

I'll try halving the sugar content and see how I go. Also good to hear that my tank is not costing me as much to run as I first thought.

Many thanks,

DC

[Dr Cucumber]

Hello all,

just thought I would share with you a story about crypt rot. My crypts (C. wendtii and C. walkeri) were growing beautifully for around three months until suddenly the leaves began to wilt and take on a mottled, almost see through appearence. Shortly following, most of the leaves started to visibly 'melt' and degenerate back to the base of the stem. I have now lost all of the leaves from both crypt varieties bar a few of the smaller leaves. A week later, new shoots began appearing so I guess the good news is that the plants did not die off completely. Nevertheless, I am now left with five messy stumps where once beautiful, thick folliage was once present.

How did this happen? Your guess is as good as mine - but I the first visible signs of leaf degeneration occured shortly following a major prunning session, where much of the Vallis' that had formed a canopy across the surface of the tank, was trimmed back. Just prior to the prunning session, I also changed the sugar /yeast mixture in the CO2 cannister resulting in a large increase in the volume of CO2 assimilating to the water. The Java fern, Vallis and pygmy chain swords loved the new conditions, but clearly, the Crypts were not happy.

So, the moral of the story is: Be careful not to alter violently the water chemistry or ligh intensity when trying to maintain heathly Crypts......

Has anyone had similar experiences, and how long did it take for the Crypts to recover??

cheers,

Glenn

[duck]

Not a nice thing to happen.
It hasn't happened to me and i moved them, i up the CO2 changed the lighting, Maybe one or two leave's but never a whole melt down,Even pruned them hard,To get rid of the algae and it was covered with it and still nothing.
The main thing it's still alive.