19 replies to this topic

[Arcturus]

I want to convert my 5ft Malawi tank into a marine setup



Basically I want to know if I can keep the sand and limestone in place? Can I simply swap the water to salt, cycle and stock?

Also, would it be a suitable habitat for lionfish and maybe some eels?

Thx

[dazzabozza]

Gday

Looks like a perfect environment for the marine species that u mention. I'd add a second cannister filter if your budget allows it as their bioload can be pretty high.

If you want to move into corals at a later date then u'll have to make some more drastic changes in regards to lighting, filtration and livestock.


Dazza

[Boof86]

Gday

Looks like a perfect environment for the marine species that u mention. I'd add a second cannister filter if your budget allows it as their bioload can be pretty high.

If you want to move into corals at a later date then u'll have to make some more drastic changes in regards to lighting, filtration and livestock.


Dazza

is there a need to wash the rocks etc first to get the freshwater bacteria off?

[dazzabozza]

is there a need to wash the rocks etc first to get the freshwater bacteria off?

Nah not really, a lot of the bacteria will be inside the porous areas of the rock too which u can't exactly get to As far as bugs are concerned most parasites won't survive the changeover. As far a bad bacteria that causes infections is concerned I'm not sure, perhaps Docfish can provide some input???

Chances are the majority of the existing good bacteria in the filters will die off so expect a cycle. I converted a marine tank to freshwater tank recently and its currently going through a cycle now. It would be a good time to gravel clean and remove the detritus build-up from the filters to help improve water flow.

Would also be worthwhile getting some live rock to assist with filtration. My predator tank always had issues with high nitrates but because of the large water volume (600L) I was reluctant to fork out for a huge amount of dollars for LR. In the end I would've added some but then I was reluctant to put my hand in tank when it was full of venomous fish! LOL. I guess the point I'm making is preparation pays off


Dazza

[ml29]

If budget allows a good protein skimmer would also help with filteration.

[aqua86]

I belief the main important factors have been missed here.
all imo:

Get rid of cannister filter - Nitrate factory - and i believe serves no purpose in a marine tank. stock up on lr
Circulation (water turn over) get your self some large power heads/wave makers, this is key to a succesful marine, you're looking at at least 20x turnover an hour between 20-30 is nice.
yes skimmer is good if you can afford get one, if you cant look through fs adds and quokka ect until you get one. they are great! = success!

if all your looking at keeping is lr and fish then stiuck with lighting, but corals i recommend t5 minimum or halides and actinics..

put it this way if you want a fairly cheap conversion.
imo get rid of rock, limestone, cannister

purchase to start off:
as much lr as you can afford 14-18$pkg (this is expensive but you can build up slowly, also buy base rock as a filler and work on your lr)
40-50kg crushed marble (approx 20-25$ a bag of 25kg) vebas, 000 grade btw
power heades/wave makers - check out vebas for resun 1500 wave makers there very cheap and havent let me down, they have 3 speeds running off a auto controller and create a wave motion which is great which will give you you 20-30x water flow

and a skimmer the best you can afford.

so basically i recommend u scrap the cannister,sand and rock you currently have.!

google berlin system
also check out www.masa.asn.au the largest and best Australian marine online forum!

[C_Pretz]

can i just say T5 is just a type of lamp/flouro, the most important factor is the output, if u get a t8 or a t5 with the same output they will do the same job, T5's just take up less room and are more expensive, so in stead of sayin get a t5 maybe its will be a lil more helpful giving the recomended output. Just my opinion, not having a go at you at all just people can make a more informed choice when they buy a light as the LFS arnt helpful at all they'll sell u the most expensive one to make more $$$

[Iamsam]

i belive you will find T5 have a higher output for the same size globe as a t8; and they do put more light out

[golden_dase]

i belive you will find T5 have a higher output for the same size globe as a t8; and they do put more light out

I concur with Sam..
Also, the costs difference in tubes is quite minimal, but T5 has more advantages such as longer life, lower power consumption, brighter for the same wattage etc..

By the way, you CAN still use your canister. But instead of the normal filter media, you can add crushed coral pieces inside the canister to assist the liverock with filtering. The return spray bar of the canister can be used to spray water across the surface of the water so you don't get a "thin film" across it. The spray bar should be placed just below the water surface and the holes aimed slightly towards the surface. This will also give your water a nice "rippling effect". Hope i'm making sense here! HAHA! If not, my mate dazzabozza can elaborate.. he tends to do that with my posts! LOL!

Cheers!
Kevin

[aqua86]

can i just say T5 is just a type of lamp/flouro, the most important factor is the output, if u get a t8 or a t5 with the same output they will do the same job, T5's just take up less room and are more expensive, so in stead of sayin get a t5 maybe its will be a lil more helpful giving the recomended output. Just my opinion, not having a go at you at all just people can make a more informed choice when they buy a light as the LFS arnt helpful at all they'll sell u the most expensive one to make more $$$

no offence "C_pretz" but non factual information is dangerous, here is some information for you and the poster to read to understand what "T5" lighting is!

> What are T5 lights?
T5 is simply a collective term for a narrow-diameter fluorescent light tube. Standard 1" fluorescent tubes are sometimes called T8s. T5s run from a special ballast, similar (but different) to the type used for standard fluorescent bulbs.

> Why are they better than normal fluorescent tubes?
The makers claim that certain T5s are roughly three to four times more effective than a standard fluorescent bulb of similar wattage. Therefore, they're being marketed as a replacement for the large banks of standard fluorescents used over many reef tanks. By using T5s you'll be able to use fewer tubes than before, and squeeze much more light power under your hood.

> Does the light they produce look different?
Yes, T5s produce a "flatter" light, like that produced by a standard fluorescent, rather than an intense directed spot of light like a metal halide. The light levels throughout the tank are more uniform, but you don't get the natural-looking rippling light effect on your substrate you get from a metal halide. Some reefkeepers reckon they lack the "punch" of metal halides for penetrating deep water, so many use a combination of the two types together. Compared to a standard fluorescent, they're considerably brighter to look at

[aqua86]

I concur with Sam..
Also, the costs difference in tubes is quite minimal, but T5 has more advantages such as longer life, lower power consumption, brighter for the same wattage etc..

By the way, you CAN still use your canister. But instead of the normal filter media, you can add crushed coral pieces inside the canister to assist the liverock with filtering. The return spray bar of the canister can be used to spray water across the surface of the water so you don't get a "thin film" across it. The spray bar should be placed just below the water surface and the holes aimed slightly towards the surface. This will also give your water a nice "rippling effect". Hope i'm making sense here! HAHA! If not, my mate dazzabozza can elaborate.. he tends to do that with my posts! LOL!

Cheers!
Kevin

of course you "CAN" still use your canister filter, you can also place corals in your current Malawi setup......... With the correct amount of water circulation in a marine setup there should be ample surface movement not to implement a "spray bar". with enough live rock, i believe the canister filter will serve no purpose when filled with coral pieces. it will be a piece of unnecessary equipment that will require weekly maintenance, if not it will be a threat to your water quality, with no real benefits. the money you can get for your filter is best spent else where on necessary items. Canister filters do how ever have their place, particularly for short term use in running carbon or phosphate removers etc, or to use like a "vacuum cleaner" if battling algae / cyanbacteria problems. If you set your tank up right (with sufficient live rock, sand and water movement,skimmer) they are simply not necessary

i recommend asking this question on www.masa.asn.au i think you will find you get a very different response to some of the advice you have been given.

Ian

[golden_dase]

I agree with you Ian

However, some people have money to spend on everthing thats needed for a "complete" setup... while others have to make do with what they have or can afford...

[aqua86]

I agree with you Ian

However, some people have money to spend on everthing thats needed for a "complete" setup... while others have to make do with what they have or can afford...

Yes very true, but in this situation the op never mentioned money as an issue, i believe he was asking are his current items recommended for a marine setup, answer is no, not recommended and then i then continued to state in my post what was recommended by the majority of reefers. but yes if the op had of mentioned "low budget" then answers would have been the same but with a low budget implementation, utilizing his current equipment where possible.

anyway.... im sure alot of useful information has come out of this from everyone, and has given the op alot to think about.
continue to research, start from the beginning and take your time, if money is an issue look towards second hand between here and masa even the quokka there are alot of classified ads. imo do it right the first time as you will only regret it later when it may be to late... also make the desison on what you want out of your tank,

if it is simply a lionfish and some marine critters then i guess not much addition is needed. but once you go marine your only going to want to build on it, eventually ending up with a full reef. just think about what you want out of the tank and wether you will be happy with that. and then do some research into that particular decision you have made. You have done the right thing asking question, ask more, get different opinions and views, specify what you want to keep and go from there, everything will become very clear once you have done the research on exactly what you want and the needs of the particular inhabitants you are after.




Ian

[C_Pretz]

alright cool, well over here is nsw t5's are very expensive and was told that the same output in T5 and T8's are the same, and as for output i meant the 'K' output not the dimensions, but seem's i have mis understood what i have been told, but its good that wrong infomation is corrected quickly on a forum. People learn there mistakes

[Iamsam]

alright cool, well over here is nsw t5's are very expensive and was told that the same output in T5 and T8's are the same, and as for output i meant the 'K' output not the dimensions, but seem's i have mis understood what i have been told, but its good that wrong infomation is corrected quickly on a forum. People learn there mistakes

yes they will have the same kelvin rateing (20,000 etc.) but they put out a higher wattage of light compared to t8, so wat you have been told is partly correct

[ado]

same kelvin rateing (20,000 etc.) but they put out a higher wattage of light compared to t8, so wat you have been told is partly correct

I know what you mean Sam, and your pretty much right, but just to clarify for those who don't know.

Kelvin rating is the color temperature output of the light. It's not really correct to describe the output of fluorescent lights in this way as they emit an interrupted energy spectrum.
But fluro tubes are marketed that way, and everyone refers to them that way.

Wattage doesn't describe the amount of light a fitting puts out, rather it describes the amount of energy it consumes. i.e what you actually pay for.
A 50 watt light bulb always draws twice as much power, and therefor costs twice as much, as a 25 watt light bulb - regardless of voltage etc.

Light energy itself is measured in lumens. This is how much light energy a lamp emits. So more lumens and less watts means a light is more efficient...more light for your money.

Most fluro lamps are pretty efficient so there is usually a direct relationship between wattage and lumens. So a higher wattage light usually puts out more light then a lower wattage light...but not always.

Have a look at this site for an explanation a lot better then mine:

http://www.aquariapl...om/lighting.htm


Cheers
ado

[Cicolid]

Hi Ado.

As I have said, I am not a sparkie, could you please help out an old carpenter.


Quote "..Light energy itself is measured in lumens.

Q - Is this marked on the tubes or on the box, if so how is it referred to ? As I can't see any mention of "nm"

I have Sylvania Aquastar 18000 K,30 watt T8's and Mozoo 10,000K, 21 watt T5's.

Quote "Wattage doesn't describe the amount of light a fitting puts out, rather it describes the amount of energy it consumes.

Does this mean the T5's are cheaper to run than the T8's ?

Hope this makes sense to you.

Col

[dazzabozza]

I have Sylvania Aquastar 18000 K,30 watt T8's and Mozoo 10,000K, 21 watt T5's.

Quote "Wattage doesn't describe the amount of light a fitting puts out, rather it describes the amount of energy it consumes.

Does this mean the T5's are cheaper to run than the T8's ?

Hope this makes sense to you.

Col

Hi Col

Referring to the fluoro comparision chart I made here - http://www.perthcich...showtopic=17639 u have standard T5's (not High Output). Your tubes are suited to a 3' fitting. In this case the the T5's would be more efficient to run. If you had T5HO (39W at that length) they would be dearer to run but have a noticeable improvement in performance/penetration.

Dazza

[ado]

Hi Col,

Q - Is this marked on the tubes or on the box, if so how is it referred to ? As I can't see any mention of "nm"

It is sometimes marked on the box, not usually on the tube to my knowledge. Otherwise the lamp manufacturers will have a data sheet
stating the output of the lamp. Its usually given as 'initial efficiency' or 'rated lumens'.
You have to remember that light output is a measurement of perceived light, usually taken at a standard distance from the light fitting,
so manufacturers aren't neccessary quick (or wise) to advertise lights by lumen output as it could easily be misused.
Thinking back to some old physics I learned sometime, I believe light follows the inverse square rule, where a doubling of distance of light fitting results in a quartering of light intensity.

this site is pretty helpful to showing efficiency of lighting and appliances:
http://www.energyrat...ch/download.asp

But as far as most people are concerned, and for aquarium applications, wattage does give a good indication of light output in quality lights. i.e greater wattage usually does mean more light.


I have Sylvania Aquastar 18000 K,30 watt T8's and Mozoo 10,000K, 21 watt T5's.

Does this mean the T5's are cheaper to run than the T8's ?

Yes. The lower the wattage the cheaper to run for any light/appliance. Obviously this is a different thing to efficiency.
For example, a 50 watt heater will draw a quarter power of a 200 watt heater (and cost 1/4 of the cost) but if it is in a too big tank, it will stay on 24 hours a day and cost a fortune,
compared with the correct size 200 watt heater which heats the tank and switches off after a hour or so.

Hope that makes sense.
I'm by know means an expert, especially in aquarium applications.
I know the theory behind lighting, and how to install them, but in reality sparkies usually just grab the light out of the box supplied by owner and throw the box on the ground without looking
If anyone else wants to add or correct I don't mind

HTH

Ado

[Arcturus]

Hi everyone thanks for your very comprehensive advice I've been in Darwin for 3 weeks now, so apologies for the late reply

I decided not to convert the Malawi tank to marine.

I totally agree with your opinions on cannisters in marine setups Aqua86 - they don't really serve a purpose.

I have a 3ft marine setup that I've been running for 6 months now. I used to run both a wave maker & a eheim cannister on it.

One day, the eheim wasn't plugged in properly and stopped working. It was about 2 weeks before I noticed. Nothing bad happened to the aquarium at all. Water parameters fine, better than normal....lower nitrates.

Conversly, the wave maker broke down about a month later - some gunk got caught inside and the wavemaker got stuck in the down position. So no surface agitation. When I found out the fish were at the surface, gasping. I actually lost 2 of them. And an anonome. This all happened in 24hrs.

Now I run the aquarium with 2 wave makers and a protein skimmer (and an air stone every now and then). I use T5 lighting. Also have heaps of LR. I love Live rock with all the weird inverts in it....even have a few crustaceans now

Anyways, after reading your advice, I decided not to do the conversion. I wouldn't be able to provide the best housing for a lionfish, without investing more than I'm prepared to right now. I'll stick with my 3ft reef for now and the Malawi tank will be used for rainbowfish.

Thanks again