Breeding
#21
Posted 14 October 2002 - 01:49 AM
I would definitely pay a little bit more to support my favorite aquarium dealer, but im talking like around 20 bucks more. Surely if they just dropped their prices to a reasonable markup (hey we all know they are there to make money), people would buy more from them ? either that or improve the quality of the stock. perhaps they do need to look at who they get their fish from. I would be more than happy to pay their regular 100% markup if the fish were top quality, but the fish in perth seem to be so average
#22
Posted 14 October 2002 - 02:51 AM
RE the point about the oscars.. I dont think that its the cost per individual fish species that counts. A LFS has to make money as a whole. It will have to sell the fish at a price that the market will bear, and nobody will pay $70 for an oscar. I agree, food and water changes may not make up a huge proportion of costs, that is exactly why a fish like an oscar eating more and requiring more water changes would not cost much more. It is the total cost of keeping a store that counts. Some fish will make more money for the store than others, and you must remember that they would sell much less hongi than electric yellows. Plus, you need to take into account losses which are a significant cost.
Keeping a warehouse is significantly different to running a LFS. Rent may or may not be the same (a warehouse does not have to be strategically situated) but the number of staff required will be less than a LFS - ppl need to serve customers, clean the tanks, etc etc In addition, the online place does not have to worry about livestock dying in their tanks.
RE quality stock: this is symptomatic of general fishkeeping attitudes. How many ppl do you know that are willing to pay more money for better quality fish. Try selling your good quality electric yellows here for say $9 and you will see. Practically no one. So each LFS will do best economically if they can offer the cheapest electric yellows - as long as they are not white, the average novice will buy them instead of the $20 bright ones at the other store. People always want to pay less to get more, its a fact of life.
Just look at the last auction. There was a guy there who got like $2 a fish for extremely nice young yellows. Now there is a benchmark (i.e. you can get yellows for $2) in the future ppl will be very reluctant to pay more for them, regardless of quality.
One example are the german import leleupis. Many stores got them in about a year back.. Many still have most of them, and i've seen quite a few die in the tanks. No one wants to buy them because you can get the greyish yellow ones in the tank or LFS next door for $10. Do you think we will be able to sell our good quality leleupis for $15 or even $10? I'd bet we wouldnt even be able to sell one. So they are selling for $5 which is about half retail or slightly less, and this is the price that people are willing to pay.
There are a few ppl who do value quality, but they are few and far between. You certainly couldnt make a living out of them.
I'm not trying to start an argument. Just letting you guys know that there are always two sides to each story, and there should be careful consideration of both sides before posting your opinions. I'm not entirely pro-LFS, but I do understand their situation.
As for good quality fish, i dont believe that any of us breeders will be able to sell many good quality fish at a significantly higher price than what is normal for that species in the market at the time. The point is that people pay more and go to greater effort to produce good quality, but still get the same returns as if they continued inbreeding the cheapest fish they can get. How many people do you think are willing to do that? Well, quite a few actually, but far more will do just the opposite..
So what are YOU guys doing to improve the fish locally?
#23
Posted 14 October 2002 - 03:32 AM
It is sad that it has turned out that way though, with people getting into it as a great hobby, then quickly hoping to make some money out of it. I wonder how many people actually enjoy watching their fish anymore ? I am fairly new to the whole fish keeping thing, so maybe it will wear off for me as well, but i still enjoy spending at least 30 minutes a day just sitting and watching the antics of my fish. For me they are there first and foremost as a hobby, something I really enjoy doing. as such, i personally would pay more for good quality fish. for me the idea of a "profit" from breeding fish is to get enough credit from the lfs to cover food and the occasional new tank!
#24
Posted 14 October 2002 - 05:40 PM
I doubt anyone will be breeding fish without still having an interest in them.. It would be a very unprofitable business indeed!
#25
Posted 14 October 2002 - 06:58 PM
So far I have had one successful batch, and it's been great watching the fry grow and I might even get them to a sellable size.
I would really like to get into breeding fish more seriously but really I have no idea where to start. If I was to buy fish I would rather pay extra for fish that are of better quality. The problem is that I have no idea where to find quality fish and my only reliable sources are people in fish stores and this forum. So I have to rely on other people to give me advice on fish and tell me what are good quality and most likely I will end up paying a huge premium on those fish.
But there is a learning cycle to it all. You need to be ripped and burnt a few times to know it before it happens again! It's called experience...
So does anyone want to sell me some good fish at hopefully not a hugely inflated price?
#26
Posted 15 October 2002 - 01:50 AM
Also consider the cost and risks attached to a small number of 'illegal imports' compared to say oscars etc which can be purchased in bulk and relatively cheapely from Singapore. Quarqntine costs are the drawback here.
This is a very generalised rule of thumb, but you could reasonably expect to get about a ¼ of retail for cash, and up to a third for Credit. Depending on the availability/scarcity of the fish at the time.
Anyway the bottom line is 'If you don't want to pay the price at the LFS, Don't buy the fish and similarly if you don't like the price you are offered for fish don't sell them. do it all privately - however the LFS do have the ability to get the new and unusual which we don't. That's the dilemer.
As for Newbie - join the PCS if you haven't already, as there is always someone who can put you on to a source for good fish, and keep an eye on these type of boards - and be prepared to pay half to a third of retail.
#27
Posted 15 October 2002 - 01:54 AM
#28
Posted 15 October 2002 - 01:58 AM
#29
Posted 15 October 2002 - 02:09 AM
#30
Posted 15 October 2002 - 02:46 AM
#31
Posted 15 October 2002 - 02:56 AM
#32
Posted 15 October 2002 - 09:04 PM
Having read the above posts at length - I can see that there are conflicting thoughts here - You want to buy good quality fish from the LFS and at a CHEAP price, but you want TOP prices for your fry/juveniles - sorry, but it doesnt work, as in order to sell cheaper he/she (the LFS) must buy cheaper. Also true is the fact that some LFS engage in a little profiteering in the initial stages as it does not take long for we hobbiests, come backyard breeders to flood the market, effectively leaving the LFS holding the bag (of fish in this case) which have cost him a considerable amount in the first place.
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LoL Well said Chris, my thoughts exactly..
BTW Chris's fish are good quality, I've seen most of them and its all good.. (especially the leleupi..! )
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