27 replies to this topic

[Abs]

Hi all,

Quick question before I start treatment for whitespot - I have read the previous posts about whitespot and other info on the net. Problem is I cannot see a single whitespot on the body of any of my fish - just on the tips of the fins. No other signs of distress at all.

The only other hint of a problem was a clown loach rubbing itself past a piece of bogwood in the last few days. No new additions to the tank for over two weeks. 6x2x2.5 tank mainly tetras with bristlenose and sailfin pleco. All other water parameters OK. 24-25C.

Could it be anything else other than whitespot?

Cheers

Adam

[Iamsam]

any chance of a pic

[ant747]

maybe a fungus? or possibly fin rot, which is the same thing. are the fins in good shape?

[Abs]

Fins are OK - can add that have just seen a bristlenose that did appear to have whitespot on body rather than just on tips of fins like other fish...so looks like its whitespot for me then

[Mr_docfish]

Check your water quality before adding any chemicals, in the mean time do what madasa would recommend, salt (approx 5gram per 40litres for starters)
White marks on the edge of the fins is normally due to bad water (make sure you are adding enough tap water conditioner too) so get it checked for at least pH, KH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate.
Can't do much else until the results are in!

Mr_docfish

PS white spot can be encouraged by having stressed fish - try find out what might be stressing them.

[Abs]

Thanks Mr_docfish,

Water shouldn't be the problem - PH 7-7.2, ammonia nil, nitrites nill, nitrates under 5. Don't have test for KH.

The only source of stress I can think of is a water change and gravel clean itself - about 20% done the day before I started to notice whitespot. Temp dropped less than 1 degree. All fish still active, always hungry and otherwise seem fine.

Is the 5gram per 40litres salt OK for the bristlenose and clown loaches?

How high could I safely raise the temp without losing tetras?

[madasa]

Hi Abbs and thanks for the recognition doc.

Just a quick question - these white areas on the fins are they a little like cauliflower growths?

Pete

[Abs]

Hi Pete,

They really are just tiny specks - too small for me to see any shape or texture, and they all appear to be right on the tips of the fins.

Appreciate your input.

Adam

[madasa]

FCish eating, swimming and everything else normally?

What is your tank size, qty and size of fish, filter turnover and tain maintenance schedule?

Pete

[Abs]

Yes All fish eating, active and otherwise happy.

Tank = 6x2x2.5 ~ 750 litres planted community
Fish;
1 Sailfin pleco (8cm)
15 Common bristlenose (2-4cm)
2 Peppermint bristlense (3cm)
6 Clown loaches (3-4cm)
11 Black skirt (widow) tetras
4 Columbian tetras
4 Buenos Aires tetras
20 neons

Filtration = Fluval FX5 canister + Eheim pick-up internal should be giving me about 2900L/hour turnover.

Maintenance = weekly 15-20% water change and gravel vac, fortnightly media rinse in tank water. Tank established about 3 months, cycled with the black skirt tetras, shouldn't say this but (touch wood)... not one single fish fatality...yet.

[madasa]

Yes All fish eating, active and otherwise happy.

Tank = 6x2x2.5 ~ 750 litres planted community
Fish;
1 Sailfin pleco (8cm)
15 Common bristlenose (2-4cm)
2 Peppermint bristlense (3cm)
6 Clown loaches (3-4cm)
11 Black skirt (widow) tetras
4 Columbian tetras
4 Buenos Aires tetras
20 neons

Filtration = Fluval FX5 canister + Eheim pick-up internal should be giving me about 2900L/hour turnover.

Maintenance = weekly 15-20% water change and gravel vac, fortnightly media rinse in tank water. Tank established about 3 months, cycled with the black skirt tetras, shouldn't say this but (touch wood)... not one single fish fatality...yet.

Doesnt appear overstocked ... you could maybe increase the cannister filter turnover to five times the volume and gravel vac weekly. Cats and plecs are waste machines.

I would also increase the weekly water change to 40%.

As Doc said - use the aquarium salt at 1tbsp to 10G for 7 - 10 days, only replacing salt that is exchanged with the water.

Do an extra water change this week of 50% with gravel vac.

Push your heat up to 30 for the period of time above.

Observe these spots ... there is a possibility they are early lymphocytosis which would present as cauliflower growths. Non curable but remove the stressor and those bugs become dormant.

Also a possibility of fungus in which case DO NOT HESITATE to anti fungal (I am assuming you are aware of what a fungus looks like though i dont think it is that). Big W do a very cheap and very effective antifungal

Whitespot will be sorted with the salt and heat but you must maintain the treatment for the 7 - 10 days as it can only be killed in the free swimming stage - around day four. However I dont think it is whitespot as just the fins are affected and they are small indistinguishable marks.

There is more likely something slightly out with the water.

Keep us informed please.

Pete

[Abs]

Thanks Pete,

Will the tetras cope with 30C or should I expect fish losses?

I take it you would not recommend chemical treatment at this stage? Should I remove the acitvated carbon (for the tannins from bogwood) during salt/heat treatment?

[Mr_docfish]

Just out of interest, which fish have the marks on the fins? The reason I ask is that some tetras (eg Buenos Aires) can be a bit scrappy at times with themselves and have been known chase after neons in search of a quick feed while your not watching. This does not answer why the loach was scratching, but may signal that there is more then one problem brewing.
Just a hunch.

doc

take the carbon out for now (it won't affect the salt but the heat might make it release some of its contents - this I am not certain but I'd rather be safe than sorry) for now you won't need it anyway - you can put a new one in later.

[madasa]

Charcoal is ONLY required for chemical filtration and then loses efficacy after a fortnight. There is no need to use it as it can actually mask poor water quality and there are reports of it being responsible for HITH.

Remove charcoal.

My knowledge on tetras vanished with any interest i had in them years ago, though I believe they are amazon basin fish and should tolerate 30.

Fish flicking and scratching - is this something I missed? What test kit have you used for the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? Test tubes are the most accurate IMO - strips I wouldnt touch.

Should you expect fish losses ... I dont think so but I am no voyeur.

Pete

[Abs]

Charcoal just in to help remove tannins from the water - but will rip it out.

The only fish I have seen flicking and scratching are one or two of the loaches and neons.

I have an API Freshwater Master test kit - so yes test tubes only for me too - and testing every 2-3 days. How important is the KH test - should I be adding that to my toolkit?

Doc - the Buenos Aires and Columbian tetras seem most effected along with a couple of the bristlenose and one of the loaches, although i haven't seen all of the loaches at the same time. They loaches have been quite skittish since they went into the tank about 10 days ago, and they are my guess as to how my tank was infected.

[Mr_docfish]

PS white spot can be encouraged by having stressed fish - try find out what might be stressing them.

They loaches have been quite skittish since they went into the tank about 10 days ago, and they are my guess as to how my tank was infected

You just hit the nail on the head
Clown loaches are very prone to spots and catching, transporting and sticking them in a new tank is one of the best ways to stress them.

Salt and heat as above for 10 days at least and look into a quarantine tank for future use it will save you money and time in the long run.

doc

PS KH is not all that important with the fish you have got, more required with Rift lake cichlids and planted aquaria or if you are having repeated problems maintaining a stable pH.

[Abs]

Cheers Doc - what are your thoughs on triple sulphur tablets for treatment - especially on the chance that the whitespot could be the secondary problem as I think you suggested before?

PS - Quarantine/hospital tank has now become a much higher priority for me.

Thanks Again

Adam

[Mr_docfish]

The spots are not a secondary problem, just stress related, but there might be a second (non-related) problem being your tetras picking on each other.
The salt will take care of many problems at the same time.
Only use strong medications if the white spot is quite bad and secondary bacterial infections could cause a problem.
I have used salt at 1gram per litre in fish tanks (no plants) with no ill effects to a wide variety of fish but I would consider this the maximum level of salt.
For now I would rely on the salt and observe.
I only use Tri sulpha in planted tanks and with scale less fish where other therapeutics (the green and blue dyes) could harm them.
If you are using sulpa drugs, you should continue the treatment for at least 7 -10 day period to prevent resistance.
If you can get a pic of the worst affected fish with spots and one close up of the fin edges in one of the tetras it would be great.
It is early days yet and spots tend to get worse before they get better (you can only kill the free swimming larval stage)

doc

[benckie]

uv

[Mr_docfish]

uv

Cuts down on number of free swimmers but wont get rid of spots completely.
(can reduce the effect of some therapeutics like Malachite green and antibiotics like Oxytetracyline that break down in light)

doc