15 replies to this topic

[AMC Fish]

Just set up a 2.5 ft Tank (100L) with 4 Electric Yellows, 4 Blue Dolphins, 4 Mangainos around 1 month ago. They are all sub 3cm with 1 of the electric yellows at 4 cm or so. They look to be all settled in now. Ideally as they grow I am looking to get a 5-6 ft when money allows. Running Eheim 2213 canister, likely to get an internal power filter as well for circulation. Can they have too much current for them?

Almost all of the time they are in the bottom third of the tank. Only the Mangainos break even the half way mark towards the top when it is feeding, otherwise they are all basically on the floor or against one of the 5 limestone rocks I have there. My question is how can I get them to come up in the tank? Ornaments of some sort? I'm not really interested in getting more fish.... I'm torn here because I don't want to disrupt the clean look of the tank. Should I provide more caves? There are only two... The other fish just kind of hang out in the open. Not swimming around, just hanging around. Will providing more caves led to more hiding? Is this just because they are smallish now?

I feed Spectrum Cichlid pellets and sera flora flakes. having now read the dolphins are more carnivorous, is this an okay combination?

I picked these up when they were really small but have noticed that the color variation is really great. One of my yellows is almost white compared to the other three. Also one of the mangainos is bright while others are pale/bleached out. Is that due to tank conditions, the other fish in the tank. etc? The dolphins are still mostly grey with black spots. I noticed the colors are brighter some days than others... I don't really care how they look as long as they are not sick. It's mostly for my enjoyment to watch them not show or breed them but refer back to the above question - they are freaking hiding all the time!!!

Any tips?

Edited by AMC Fish, 08 December 2010 - 09:16 AM.

[Salpon]

I started with a 70L tank I was given for free and some electric yellows and peacocks some store sold me. They just weren't happy fish in a tank that size. Since upgrading rather dramatically to a 500L 6ft I can easily tell the difference between fish behaviour. Sometimes I even feel my new tank is too small for them and I wonder about an 8ft.... My point is, it really is just too small for them. It might be passable now but they will need more room very shortly as they grow and begin to compete with one another. A tank that size would probably be okay for a small colony of one species like the mainganos. In the meantime I would recommend that you do what you can to provide suitable hiding spots and reduce bright lights or reflective substrate as these fish do not like a lot of light. They do generally become more active under some sort of lighting though. Also check that your water parameters are all okay, zero ammonia, zero nitrites and low nitrates (Sorry if I'm covering stuff you know all about) and that the pH is fairly high, around 8. I assume the pH would be fine with the limestone you have.

Also colour variation like you described is normal. And fish can gain a lot of colour as they grow.

Oh and that food is fine.

Edited by Salpon, 06 December 2010 - 10:47 PM.

[Cawdor]

Considering the tank is so small, they really don't have much choice of where to go - the EY will always hang in and around caves. Combined with what Salpon has said about lights etc there is not too much you can do without getting a larger tank and suitable dither fish (fish that will draw others out).

The blue dolphins will eventually hang most around the middle of the tank, the EY will hang around rocks and the maingano somewhere between bottom and middle.

[AMC Fish]

I haven't tested the water lately but I know the last time I did my cycle hadn't totally finished. I have had fish prior but not cichlids. Anyway I thought I'd try the fishless cycling and that was a dud. 3 weeks into it, with the parameters and bacterial colony started but stagnant, I threw these 12 fish in there. I will recheck it again at the LFS.

The thing that threw me with the cichlids (i know they are small now and cave dwelling fish) is that they are using just the bottom, making my 100L essentially only 50L. Once I can find a bigger tank I will upgrade. For now I'll try to provide more caves. So they'll never go in the upper third? Even with a new tank and a rock wall or something?

I have some fluoros on them now. What would be a better lighting option? I just had a regular house light bulb on them before but then I couldn't really see the colors or them!


Thanks for the knowledge

[Sarah Jayne]

I'm not going to comment on how small your tank is because it's been said... once you get a bigger tank chuck some tetra like fish in as it will make the other fish comfortable and come out more.(that's what I have done, I'm sure silver sharks would work too) Jut don't get to attached to your 'dither' fish. They'll ptoberly end up feeder fish once your fish are bigger. With Manganos usually the females are lighter, than the males. good luck

[golden_dase]

AMC Fish, if you add more caves (as mentioned), then the fish will have more places to "hide", which I think you don't want. How about removing some of the rock and re-arranging the tank so it's pleasing to view. I reckon they'll be more "active" if there's not many "hiding spots" being made available..

Edited by golden_dase, 07 December 2010 - 08:56 AM.

[werdna]

3cm fish will not be too active. Let them grow a bit.
When fish are small they hide and lay low as they dont want to attract predators.

[golden_dase]

3cm fish will not be too active.

My Lethrinops juvies have daily races around the tank, at all water levels. But as soon as I put a couple of rocks in, they hide.

[AMC Fish]

Thanks.

Yeah I was wondering if I added some ornaments or a branch type thing in the upper third of the tank if that would get them to go up to maximize usage of the tank. What I wanted to avoid is giving them too many hiding places. Then I'd never see the bloody things! Hopefully they will grow out of it...

Wow with some many comments about the size of my tank, I'm going to get a complex!! I'm working on *ahem* getting bigger... but i wonder if it'll be the same situation in a bigger tank? As in, fish still in the bottom third only with more floor space! I am pondering dither fish but I feel like that's like adding to a problem to solve it!

Cheers

[Sarah Jayne]

Google 'dither' fish

[Cawdor]

One of the standard rookie mistakes is to "start small". Go as big as you can afford and have room for, do some research on species and their behaviour and you'll be good.

None of the fish in my big tank hang around rocks, all swim on the open, except catties

[AMC Fish]

Thanks guys.

I'm sure we could all blindly answer all fish questions with 'get a bigger tank' and that in itself would be right 99% of the time. I understand in an ideal world the solution would be to go bigger. If money and space were no object and I could get the proper filters, lights and stuff I would do just that. But in my reality currently, that's not possible. It's not even a monetary limitation as such but literally a 6ft tank would be bigger than my kitchen. Seriously!!! Not to mention all the grief I'd catch from the gf when I steal such valuable real estate for pet fish. I guess I should've re-phrased my question to 'What can I do in the interim before buying a new tank to stop my cichlids from hiding/ how do I use the top of the tank?' Or lets say '2.5ft is the biggest and best I could afford. What do I do now?'

I understand the concept of dither fish. But that circles back to my tank isn't big enough as is, why would I want to add 10+ more schooling fish to it? Yes that would probably solve hiding issues but then I'd really be overstocked. For the record, one of the sponsors of this site told me I could fit waaaay more cichlids in a tank of this size. As in double that amount. I thought I was being generous with only 12. Also interestingly, I've read online that you could add more cichlids as 'dither' fish. The thought process being safety in numbers. That might be an option I will pursue. Or any suggestions as to a top to mid level swimming compatible dither fish for the 12 that I have?

Very grateful for the input. Just trying to get some ideas before I blow money on something without thinking it through creating more problems as I go...


For now I'm going to try golden dase's idea of re-arranging the tank. I'll keep you post updated.

AMC Fish, if you add more caves (as mentioned), then the fish will have more places to "hide", which I think you don't want. How about removing some of the rock and re-arranging the tank so it's pleasing to view. I reckon they'll be more "active" if there's not many "hiding spots" being made available..

[Salpon]

When the tank is big enough you will see their natural behaviour come out and they will swim around all parts of the tank, but mostly the lower 2/3 (not 'hiding' though). They appreciate maximum length and floor space over height so consider that in any tanks you might buy.

I was taking a guess that they might be hiding because they are stressed from a small space with little cover. If they feel that they can easily dart back into some rocks or plants, they may feel braver about venturing out. Black or dark substrate may help too. If the water is toxic from ammonia or nitrites they could be just laying low until the cycle is over. It's difficult to tell but you will learn your fishes behaviour with time.

I personally would stay away from dither fish. They will just add to your bioload and most small fish like tetras would not be happy in such high pH water. Just my opinion though.

One fluoro light should be plenty. Try a globe with a high Kelvin temperature such as 10,000K if you can find one as this will bring out their colours well. Or you could mix a globe like LifeGlo which is similar to sunlight with AquaGlo/PowerGlo which have more blue in them.



Matt

[Link2Hell]

they are all still young fish and will most likely school together
close to any cover but will normally rise to the top of tank at
feeding time
Maingano & Electric Yellow are Mbuna and are attracted to
structure while Moorii (Blue Dolphin) are sand sifters so will
relate to staying at substrate level as they get older
the colours will develop as they grow

when stacking rocks make sure they are stable and try
to keep them similar in colour

Chris

[AMC Fish]

Awesome input.

Thought I'd keep this updated. I know I'm going to get some grief for this but what I ended up doing was adding 4 more fish, all benga peacocks. 2 were 4-5cm, 2 were 3cm or so. Anyhow they must've come from a tank that was more social. There are not enough hiding places now so they being the last ones in ended up exposed and then the others came out too. Everyone is basically out and about now. The peacocks swim using the bottom 50% and at feeding even go to the surface. The mangainos are also quite daring now during feeding sessions. They chase each other around a bit but hopefully nothing serious, mostly mangainos and the dolphins chasing, EY and peacocks run away.

Noticed Link2Hell's comment about the EY and Maingaino liking structures and the Blue Dolphin being out in the open. Exactly that scenario in my tank.

Tested the water and ammonia and nitrite good. pH neutral so I have to work on that. No deaths or sickly looking fish, everyone looking healthy except the bengas have some ripped fins from shipping I think. I purchased an extra power head anyway and will install that soon.

Will take Saipon's comment about 10000k lights on board. When my current lights blow I'm going to buy higher kelvin ones.

Finally, even though I have a good thing going by just adding the fish I'm going to still take golden_dase's advice and move the rocks. Currently my rocks are in the middle of the tank. I think this is making the mangainos chase everyone on the entire tank.. I'm going to make one side cave land and the other side open water without any rocks to see how that works.

Thanks again. Still looking for a larger tank but happy in the mean while...

Cheers

[AMC Fish]

Forgot...

the other thing was since it is only the gf and I, We took turns just sitting in front of the tank staring at the cichlids. After a while they eased up and we can come and go without making them dash for the caves any more.

Interestingly, I have some goldfish that we're just too compassionate not to just cull. One came with the tank we bought and has a tumor or skin defect, the other is tilted to one side. We've gone through multi cure and such but they're still both retarded. Anyway in this bastard tank I use the cheapest sponge air driven filter and old equipment and the water quality was better than my 'fancy' cichlid tank which I do spend money on....