13 replies to this topic

[Anita ozfish]

Would a member of the committee please explain to me what, if any, the association is between these two entities.
I thought I would start a new thread and leave the auction one alone as that is getting a bit messy with two topics going in one
Correct me if I am wrong but I thought this was a public forum where all things related to fish and the hobby (including the PCS) could be discussed. I am a bit disappointed to read some of the comments on another thread ie

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There are legal reasons behind it, public auctions have to have a registered Auctioneer
Email me if you want to discuss it further

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Is this not something that can be openly talked about? It's a bit difficult for me to attend meetings atm and I want to have some input into an open discussion. I know that when selling a house, you need to registered in order to make a bid but you are only a "society", a non profit organisation. Surely any issues are covered by your public liability insurance?

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The Web forum is open to anyone including those who may not have the interest of the Society or its members in mind.

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Tony, that is a bit harsh isn't it? I think everyone who uses this forum has the best interests of the club at heart.

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at the end of the day I've decided to shrug like the rest have done

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This is the end result of having things shoved under the carpet, so to speak. Let's discuss these issues that people have concerns with and maybe with some positive feedback, things may start to look up. We, as hobbyists are all in the same boat and care about the same things - how come things always come to loggerheads???
PS I don't wish to discuss this over an email - here would be great for any replies - thanks

electral@bigpond.com | web | Sydney, Australia.

[mtchye]

Hi Anita,

Good questions... Officially the forum is not a part of the Society. It is run in collaboration with the society, but due to legal ramifications advised by lawyers its been decided that the forum would be run separately. It is confusing as many of the moderators and I myself who founded the forum are also in fact members of the committee of the society and are identified as such on the forum when we post. The reason this was done was to allow people who wanted to ask things about the society someone to direct their inquiries to. I'll have a think about this and perhaps there should be separate Forum hats and Society hats for the individuals that are involved in both, so to speak...

The reason is that the forum is regarded as a public place. Anything untoward posted here (despite addition of legal disclaimers etc - which are supposedly largely useless) could cause legal problems for the society.

Now you might say, yes well the society meetings are also a public place. In fact for legal purposes the meetings are regarded as private meetings between financial members of the club. Visitors are allowed, but are required by constitution to sign up as financial members after a few meetings. (of course this rule has not been strictly enforced)

That is why a professional auctioneer is not required at Society auctions if it is held as a private, club member only event. It is in fact the reason the Koi Society has held it in this manner for many years and independantly verified by lawyers and a check of the relevant legislation.

I dont know what the rules are like in other states so I cannot say. If they are the same then many societies are liable for VERY large fines, as well as the individual who acts as the auctioneer (auctioning without professional licence) and even the building the society rents!

Fact is typing this up accurately takes time. I may have made some mistakes above as this is what I got from memory of the discussion at the last committee meeting. Forgive any minor mistakes that may crop up but the gist of it should be clear.

All items of such importance will be in newsletters that go out to all members, and discussion is welcomed via correspondence and also at the meetings.

As for the forums, at the moment I guess I'm the one responsible for it, not the society, and not me as Society vice-president. Just plain ol me *cue evil laugh*

And Anita, no offence intended, and yes the majority are good people, but there are always the minority without the society's interests at heart, and unfortunately its difficult to restrict their access to the forum. These individuals are few and far between, but they have made the forum a much more legally "careful" place unfortunately.

So I hope that will explain things for all of you. Your inquiries are welcome at the meetings and through e/snailmail and any issue that needs discussion will be put in the newsletter to all financial members.

Phew.. *rests tired fingers*


Vincent

Visit the:
Perth Cichlid Society Forums

[00 Electric 00]

Good Work Vincent

[mrgreen]

ok let me get this straight......
there is no assosiation between this forum and the PCS???
if this is the case , why are people getting upset with the way there questions are answered on the forum by commitee members?
your lucky your even getting a invitation to discuss it further , the way it seems to me is , we are expecting a little too much from these people as to giving non members explainations of wats happenin within the club

auctions are not a forum run event , but a club run event. im sorry if it seems my tune has changed , but i was of the understanding the forum was PCS based , i stand corrected , in this case all non members should be happy with the information given by all people who actually take the time to answer some questions for these people , and should understand that more in depth discussions will take place at our clubs meetings where members can have there input and vote on changes.

if you are unhappy with some of the goings on with a club u are not a member off , tough bickies , do urself a favour and become a member and have some real input at the clubs events , i have never seen anyone alienated at meetings and events for voicing there opinion on wat could make our club better and ive never seen a question turned down and not be discused , but i dont believe these questions MUST be answered in here , being a public forum and all.

With the information that has come to light with the auctions , everything that has been said is correct , i would be utterly disapointed if the "club" would do anything not in the intrest of its finacial members , if there is a possibility of being fined for having visitors at our auctions , then they must be stopped from attending , and therefore the risk of the "club" being financially crippled removed . Sure it would be great to have non-members come and the members can have the oppertunity to purchase their fish and vice-versa , like it has been in the past , but times have changed , and i for one would not like my "club" be put at risk by allowing non-members to attend.

this brings me to a possible resolution to this problem ( as i dont want to just shoot my mouth off and alienated non-members)

ok , a member recieves all the benifits the club has to offer ie discounts from sponsers , newsletters , entry to meetings and auctions , but for the clubs sake , should we consider offering limited memberships????

by this i meen , non-members can join up at the auction for 1 week period , therefore allowing them to be at the auction with no legal ramifications to the club .( they will be a probationary member who can pay the differance after the one week period to become a full member)

i believe this will actually help the club , if we charge non members $5.00 to become probationary members , we will not only sort out this legal mumbo-jumbo , but also expose a lot more peole to our club aswell as raising much needed revenue for future events .

i see alot of people on the forum complaining about how things are done , why not take this one step further and actually give a idea/stratagy that mite make things better , its easy to bitch and moan , not as easy to find a solution
cheers
steve green

[anchar]

Hi all,
Firstly, some good points made there Steve...maybe something for the PCS committee to contemplate. Secondly, isn't the name of this forum "Perth Cichlid Society Forum"??? Does this not indicate to users that they are interwoven????

merjo

[chuckmeister]

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ok let me get this straight.....there is no assosiation between this forum and the PCS???

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I mean no disrespect Vincent but regardless of the lack of communication possably between your collegues the name of this forum is 'Perth cichlid society forums' and is moderated by PCS commitee members except of coarse the hosting of the catfish forum. The name explicedly implies that this is part of the PCS. While you will no doubt correct me when you wish the fact remains that as a member of the public (which I am I think Steve ) that people on this forum associate the two together. How can you not!!. And why wouldn't the PCS use this tool as one of their most potent tools for getting new membership.

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if this is the case , why are people getting upset with the way there questions are answered on the forum by commitee members?your lucky your even getting a invitation to discuss it further , the way it seems to me is , we are expecting a little too much from these people as to giving non members explainations of wats happenin within the club

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What a load of nonsense. I'm not upset about anything. What I'm concerned about is the lack of response that is given potential members voicing a concern/interest. Also I've never needed an invitation to discuss anything. While posts may disappear it doesn't stop people from talking!! and I'll continue to do so..

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in this case all non members should be happy with the information given by all people who actually take the time to answer some questions for these people , and should understand that more in depth discussions will take place at our clubs meetings where members can have there input and vote on changes.

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The job of the commitee is to not only run the society but to encourage new membership. Its a responsability that is taken when volunteering for the job and is IMO not a wimsical position. I also dont buy the 'But I'm a volunteer' copout. Also this sounds like you are above the rest because you have you PCS card and I dont

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if you are unhappy with some of the goings on with a club u are not a member off , tough bickies

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Unfortunately thats just not good form and is a general indication of what new members are going to walk into.. A closed society

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but i dont believe these questions MUST be answered in here , being a public forum and all.

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But this is the PCSF with PCS moderators. Why would a non member not ask here.

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ok , a member recieves all the benifits the club has to offer ie discounts from sponsers , newsletters , entry to meetings and auctions , but for the clubs sake , should we consider offering limited memberships????

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A very good idea. Problems can be sorted out without just simply saying all non members are not welcome to participate in any of the auctions. It doesn't sound really all that inviting does it!!! I'd rather know about why I'd want to join!!

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i see alot of people on the forum complaining about how things are done , why not take this one step further and actually give a idea/stratagy that mite make things better , its easy to bitch and moan , not as easy to find a solution

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How about this one. Where is the trade table. Something as simple as a place to go once a month to purchase food, water conditioner etc at a discount price. What simpler way to keep members happy and entice new members. It cant be that hard. Geez the president own a shop.... and the society is entitled to buy at wholesale. I dont know the laws on profit margin though. I will check.This society needs incentives not restrictions. Dont get me wrong, I'm not complaining about what the society does I'm having a shot at what it doesn't.

[mtchye]

Hey guys,

When I first started the forum it was hoped that it could be an extension of the society. This I realise now is not a good idea at all - however the name etc was already registered and the forum in full swing - changing it would require more time than i have at present. I was hoping to let it coast along and slowly distance the forum from the society at my own pace (yeah.. veerrry slowly) and it was complicated by ezboards high charges to be ad free, but also high traffic meaning quite a high cost to whoever paid for the forum if it was brought to a local server.

This whole issue is actually my fault for wanting to give as much warning as possible for the new auction rule changes. I should have waited till the whole thing was all typed out and sent out to members. As it was the whole "email me" thing was because we didnt want to put anything official wrongly (not that the forum is all that official - but ppl would have taken it as such).

You all know you have good and valid points. However time and effort is the limiting factor here. I really think there are many of the committee who put in a lot of hours in addition to their normal lives and there just isn't really much time to do much else. I'm not trying to pat myself on the back here, i'm not one of them that works the 40 hr week then comes home to do this stuff, but cmon guys a little credit for the work done, and maybe a hand in implementing suggestions that you make would be a big help.

Of course it would be good to have larger and larger memberships, and i believe we do try to be as accomodating as possible to people on this forum. However responses via the internet and especially public forums tend to drag on and on without resolution - to be honest i've tried it before and believe me half the daily posts become political / head banging rather than just about the fish? Sometimes i reckon we lose track of what we are about at the core - a group of ppl who want to get together and discuss cichlids lol...

RE the trade table. There are many varied reasons why it is not running at present. Too many to go into here. BUT if you were to approach us at a meeting we would explain it all to you.

As far as I'm concerned given my time schedule at the moment, we have two options here. The one option i dont have is to port the forum over to a new one just called the Perth Cichlid forum. Not enough time sorry...

Option two if you guys really want is for me to shut down the forum so that the society no longer gets dragged into this.

Option 3 is we just get on with discussing fish...

Option 4, someone capable takes over the forum and ports it all for us.

What do you think is the option "common sense" says we should follow? It would be different for everyone but for me I'd go for 3... and wait a little bit for my lazy butt to get into gear and sort something out.

I think this discussion is a little pointless. In the end you are right about the name being wrong by one word, and all the implications that follow. Lots of things can be done better, and of course if we had the resources a better option would always be followed. Lots of ppl have suggestions but come the time to do the hard yards you can come listen to the sounds of silence! (and chuck, i dont mean this personally in the slightest - we do value any and all suggestions)

What I have been meaning to say is that sometimes there isn't time to respond to every thing here. We do consider it at committee meetings and important issues are raised at general meetings. Many of us prefer face to face discussions rather than those over a written medium.


Vincent

Visit the:
Perth Cichlid Society Forums

[mrgreen]

chuck u know i respect ur opinion and by no meens was my post directed at u i am not aware who is and who is not a finacial members , i think my limited probationary membership would be a great idea and ill bring it up at the next meeting so i can see my personal friends at the auctions who are not members.

i know ur not knocking the society for wat it does , but wat it doesnt , and u said a trade table would be a great idea????
for food , water conditioner etc etc , now although this sounds like a great idea , wat about the discount card i already hold ???? i already get 10% discount on all these things and more 6 to 7 days everyweek. so wat are u getting at??? im not sure if i get ur jist , are u saying even further discount should be offerd , please clarify , are u saying that members should get all these items at wholesale prices.......?
i dont agree or disagree just unsure of wat u exactly meen , and surely this cant be the only suggestion u have for the club , i know ud like for topics to be openly discussed , but wat other things would u like to see changed , whilst were in this open discussion , lets let it all out , i for one am most intrested ta hear everything everyone has to say
cheers
steve green

[chuckmeister]

Hey Steve, thanks for the understanding mate.. I know it wasn't directed at me.
As far as a trade table is concerned, its a means of attracting membership. It should be allowed to members and non members as it also allows the club to raise much needed funds. Even though most people get better than 10% anyway (they should if they have a good relationship with their lfs) the card still applies to people that cant get to meetings or dont yet have ties with their lfs operator. Also I'm not talking about cannisters etc just the consumeables that people go through on a monthly basis. While there is the arguement about undercutting the shops, I dont believe it applies as both the society is not in competition with the shops and the membership is so low as to the point that it makes it irrelevent. Also you can already get close to wholesale by buying off AOA in any case. What I'm saying Steve is that the society can buy and sell but being a non profit organisation is limited (in my understanding) on the profit margin they can put on such items. I'm sure to be corrected on this if I'm wrong.

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and surely this cant be the only suggestion u have for the club

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Lol Well considering I haven't sat down and thought about it and I'm not on the commitee hows this one...
Why not have organised fish room runs. People can meet and spend a day cruising around looking at the way different people set things up and do things in general. The same could apply to fish shop runs!!!! I've just given two Ideas and I'm only just sitting in front of my puter.....

Theres also the issue of losing sponsers. I know of one that has pullled out and at least one maybe two others that are not happy and are considering the same. It seems that the comittee has lost the pulse of their sponsers too.
I know It seems that I'm doing a lot of finger pointing and that unfortunately the commitee is copping the brunt but I'm looking for reasons TO join. Also its a natural thing to go to the top and in this case its the commitee.

Lol See when you talk about things Ideas form. Theres three or four already. The power of the forum..

Just on a quick note about these forums, Some people are more comfortable typing ideas than publicly speaking them and IMO should be utilised as another form for gaining ideas and opinions to further the club. It also has the added benifit of increasing the traffic/expertise coming through the forum

Charlie

[Fish Antics]

I dont want to get into e-mail/Forum bickering just to say that The Aim of the Perth Cichlid Society is
" We are a non profit organisation whose aim is to promote the conservation of the neotropical fish family Cichlidae world wide and the responsible husbanding of the species within Australia, by educating our members and the general public through a friendly sharing of knowledge at our meetings, open days and special promotions. The theme of our meetings is to have a good time, learn and share knowledge".

This is what we are trying to do. Our Society is made up of financial members. Our committee was elected by the members and has a responsibility to those members.
There is obviously a lot of passion out there on the forum. It would be great to have that energy focused on furthering the aims of the Society. The best way of doing that is to become a member and have your input and say at our meetings.
If people feel the need for change or have ideas to improve the way things are being done then please join and add your valuable contributions.
Some good ideas have been mentioned, a number of which have recently been raised and discussed at meetings and will actually start happening from the next general meeting.

I ask that people don't just brush it off and leave it for others to do, join and be a part of it.

Tony.

Edited by: Fish Antics at: 3/20/04 8:43 pm

[Anita ozfish]

Thanks for that Tony. It's good to get an excerp from the constitution. I fully intend to join when I get over there
I know some feathers have been ruffled here but I think everyone in the end wants what is best for the hobby overall.
Cheers with your efforts on committee

electral@bigpond.com | web | Sydney, Australia.

[BengaBoy]

some good points coming up here.

just my spin on it...

If you have something to say about the PCS then join it and contribute your points there. I feel the PCS is the responsibility of the members, not just the commitee. And frankly I dont see why non-members should have any benefits at all with the society. They should be allowed to attend a token number of meetings (say 2), excluding auctions. Then if they want the benefits of the society they can join. Having non-members with most of the benefits of members lessens the value of membership and no-one will ever join.

If you have something to say about this forum then do something about it here. Dont wait for the volunteer moderators - say when you think a post is out of order etc. (I have noticed a bit more of that happening recently which is great). The quality and standards of the forum are set and maintained by the contributors , not just the moderators. It was a great idea of Vincent's to set up the forum but I dont see why he should be shackled with 24hrx7day moderation duties - beyond the call of duty I think. Of course it would be better if people didnt post dodgy posts - but that would be defying human nature.

Steve.

[horrorhead]

hi all , this topic is huge.
all points are valid, but the society must be apart from external influences ( non profit organisation) therefor, a conflict of interest must never be allowed into the society.
as a shop owner,(if you did not know) i have generated business from this forum ,thanks, but i have never pushed
myself or my shop on this forum. this forum is for interested people and not the advancement of some.
P .s. THANKS ALL YOU VOLENTEERS
regards horrorhead

[me]

I too thought the site was in conjunction with the society.

I too thought that the Society paid for the forums to be run and are moderated by the society presidents and staff.