76 replies to this topic

[waruna]

Any food that could turn a silvery female in to male colouration has male hormones, also known as "testosterones". It is equivalent to steroids (in human terms). Could you imagine giving these hormones to a child, whether it is male or female?

Hope you find this interesting:

http://www.fuelthemi...cing_drugs.html


Cheers,
Waruna

[Mr_docfish]

All animals being male or female produce testosterones, the difference in males and females is the amount of testosterone verses other hormones such as oestrogen and progesterone. It should also be said that some foods can contain products that mimic these hormones (read up on soya beans and oestrogen). If a food contained hormones that are steroid based then it would affect all animals the same way (fish are injected with human gonadotropins to encourage spawning) so why then does white crane food only affect cichlids and not rainbowfish or other families of fish? I have tried it on many species of fish and found that it only has a marked affect on cichlid species (some more than others BTW) and limited if any affect on other types of fish.
Overuse can surely damage individuals but too much of anything is also no good. Moderation and variety is the best practice.
I agreee with pacco from Vebas, the best use for white crane foods is to identify that you have the correct species or colour form of female peacock (for example) before breeding from it (2 weeks of daily feeding will not cause them to become infertile) and due to its strong vitamin content it can assist in enhancing the disease resistance in individuals especially in those that have been stressed.
PS Sorry for the long post (I had to cut it down - but I think I have a bit more background knowledge and hands-on information than some

[waruna]

In most cases the difference between male and female colouration of Cichlids particularly Peacocks and Victorian Haplochromis are like night and day. In other Cichlids such as Tropheus, Discus and Angels the colour difference is somewhat subtle. Majority of Marine fish from Damsels or Clown fish to Imperator Angelfish the difference in colour is indistinguishable between sexes, and so are the Neon Tetras and Cardinal Tetras.

The reason for using large dosages of Hormones in fish foods is to colour up less colourful females or Juvenile fish for marketability, nothing more. It is a quick fix; long term use will cause damage to your fish’s health, period.

I don’t know of any ingredients that could colour up a normally silvery female in to male colourations??? I am all ears! If I take steroids for two weeks I may be alright at the end of it too, like I said before, but I wouldn’t want my children or Girl friend near it even if it contains lots of Vitamins. Why not just take Vitamins pills instead?

Cheers,
Waruna

[Mr_docfish]

"I don’t know of any ingredients that could colour up a normally silvery female in to male colourations??? I am all ears!"

If you were to try the food yourself, on fish such as say dwarf gouramis (males and females are "night and day") you will find no such affect as in cichlids. If you are saying that the food contains hormones (steroids) then it will affect all fish (and all other animals) in the same way.

White crane food is not intended as a daily food source, just a supplement - just as you would take vitamins as a supplement. Over use of any vitamin or any one product can cause harm (too much beef heart fed to any cichlid will, in time, cause damage)

It is a food that can be used where required to determine the species and/or colour variant of a cichlid when required. It can be used to increase growth and vitality (in moderation of cause!) and to enhance the immune system of stressed individuals (eg: subordinate males or females that have been beaten in a display or new fish in a quarantine tank)

I will say that NLS is superb and balanced, so don't get me wrong but I have used these products and I will admit that they are good and used correctly, they will give you the same growth, vibrancy, vitality and immune enhancement. I just wish that the public would see the benefits of other products, where applicable, and use their own judgements without jumping to conclusions - especially before having used the product themselves.

I am an Aussie and I believe in a fair go - listen to people who have knowledge and experience not just an opinion, but in the end, make your own informed decision - that's what forums should be about!

Happy fish keeping.
Mr Docfish

[Jester]

Some very interesting posts here. I will say I have used white crane in the past (oblivious to the fact that it may contain hormones) and it coloured up my peacocks fantastically. I used it in conjunction with flora flakes and frozen brine shrimp.

The facts are:
1. It did colour females to an almost dominant state in the tank,
2. The once outstanding colours have been lost ever since. They only showed a 'faded' colouration thereafter. Even the largest, most dominant males in the tank.

I would like to hear if anyone else has experienced something similar to my 'after-shock'.

Ben

[Mr_docfish]

If you have fed your fish so much as to colour your females up to a point that they resemble fully coloured males, I feel you have been feeding too heavily!! Remember - moderation, taking a whole jar of vitamin C tablets yourself wont do you any good. Feed every day for a max of 2 weeks if you have to (eg: identification purposes only), then go to once or twice a week if you wish to continue (once a week in my experience would be enough to maintain good colour without over doing it). This would also be the cheapest way to maintain colour if that is what you intend to use the food for, you can then control when and how much to feed, and feed a standard staple diet in the interim.
I have come across a batch that did not colour the fish up well (may have been kept in too high temperature during storage) try a different batch (batch numbers are printed on the sides of the containers) . Also, check your water qualities, and lastly check the age of your fish in question, though I doubt this would be your case.
Let me know, if systems persist.....see Mr Docfish

[Jester]

I agree I may have been overfeeding. I was feeding my display tank white crane at least 3-5 times per week.

Thanks for the feedback, Ben.

[Fox]

Correct me if Im wrong, But doesnt it say on the package to feed them twice a day for best colors?

Im sure thats what it said last time I read it. (about 2 yrs ago)

[Mr_docfish]

What does any food container say about feeding? 2-3 times a day?
In order to sell more food tell fish keepers to use more of it!!
Use your own discretion and consider the cost of the food too!
Some species will need more than others to maintain top colour (electric blues need very little whereas say firemouths need twice as much to get the same affect)
Personally the only time I would use the white crane foods is as I have mentioned above:
"It is a food that can be used where required to determine the species and/or colour variant of a cichlid when required. It can be used to increase growth and vitality and to enhance the immune system of stressed individuals (eg: subordinate males or females that have been beaten in a display or new fish in a quarantine tank)"
I do not use it to 'force' the 'maximum colour' in fish for display, nothing beats the real fish keeping challenge of getting your fish to look their best naturally. Feeding it once a week will give your fish an edge and encourage subordinate males to show some colour, in the meantime, feed a good variety of food including frozen products that suit your species culinary requirements.

Bon appetite!

Mr_docfish

[Ham]

White crane Over on the German Tropheus Forums
they state that they use this as there main diet for the
Tropheus and the colours of the fish are outstanding
and no one breeds Tropheus like the Germans as i see
it the females colour right up but the males even more.
As for breeding there Tropheus are doing it all the time?
Also NLS well thats all i have ever fed my colony,s of
Tropheus they grow fast ,big lots of colour and breed
all the time and fry ar always healthy.
My 2 cents worth
Cheers Graham.

[waruna]

Mr_docfish, you wrote on Sat Aug 04, 2007 (since then you've edited your reply)

I believe 'waruna' you are the distributor of of your own brand of colour enhancing food - what a shame that you have to resort to dumping the competition in order to further your product.

It's a shame you had to bring up the sales man card, I have come across plenty of people like you in the past, self proclaimed experts, when you can't answer a simple question, and you make it personal, shame.

I haven't mentioned any other brands here, simply having a conversation and discussing my concerns and thoughts on the product in question. Well just because I sell another brand don't I have a say? First and foremost, I’m a hobbyist like every one else here.

As far as I’m concerned, you could have a vested interest in white crane products. At least I have the decency to let people know who I am and not hide behind a different name.

Good luck to you!

Waruna

[RogtheCaveman]

I know this is an old topic but I was wondering if things have changed since 2007.
We've been feeding our Cichlids Spectrum Thera A+ and Sera San Flakes but was wondering if
now that our display tank is all male if it was worth feeding them some of the white crane.
If we were to colour feed them with white crane, how often would we give it to them?
Also how clean is white crane as we have found the Spectrum Thera A+ dirties the water.

Thanks

[scotty81]

I use white crane but only on my male display tank and it works great, I initially fed them only white crane for a week and after that have been feeding them 75% nls and 25% white crane and the colour remains great. Have been doing this for a fair while now with no apparent ill affects at all.

[RogtheCaveman]

Thanks Scotty

[scotty81]

Hey mate dont just take my word on it, I know others have used it with sucess as well ( Bowdy?? wanna chime in ) I also know Vebas use it to colour up some of there fish ( They state this on the tanks that they feed it to, which is alot more then I can say for some shops I have bought fish from ). Hopefully someone else can also add there opinion

[Buccal]

I to feed the G in the same ratio as Scotty.
Some of my fish are over 6 years old and have had 20% G in their diet all their lives.
The G must be purely seen or used as a tool to promote coloration.
Peacocks and orange malawis I recommend super R.
For the rest of malawis use super G.
Super G and R will dirty up electric yellows.
Everything Mr_docfish has covered on the knowledge about Super G, I have also experienced and believe he is bang on.
I believe the Psb (photosynthetic bacteria), in whitecrane, triggers the Malawi fishes body to create its own hormones causing a imbalance.
The male characteristics of a Malawi fish among others are long fin extensions.
The G actually stimulates fin growth.
The fluorescence under the scales, usually blue, is also stimulated, so a fish on G that has red or orange flanks like a red empress may lose the red or orange to the blue taking over caused by the G.
There is no doubts about it, the white crane really sets off your display fish for unbelievable outcomes.
Just don't over do it.
I use it in my display tank and wouldn't have it any other way.

[atep32]

I have tried many many foods that claim to be colour enhancing and have found them all to be rubbish. The super G in particular gave my female red empress a distinct blue tint and black marks on lighter colour fish. After buying some nice fish off a local down here in Mandurah he recommended NLS Thera a and Ocean Nutrition flakes. The difference was amazing at the time I was using Hikari Gold. I had some three month old fry that were a bit wishy washy and are now an eye popping yellow. They absolutely smash it and after seeing the difference (which took about a week) it made in my own fish I will never use anything else. It is a pity retailers down here don't stock it.

[Furnix]

Ive never used white crane, but will one day! At the moment i use a big mix and think that i get awesome results! Start with nls about 40% sera flora (vege flake) about 20% freeze dried blood worms about 20% and chilli red also 20%. I find i get awesome colour and big fat happy fish!

[RogtheCaveman]

One of the guys at work today was talking about Spirulina 20.
He's been using it for a few months now.
He bought it online and reckons his fish are really vibrant and healthy.

Has anyone else tried this stuff?

[Buccal]

Spirulina does for sure, intensify the blue fluorescence.
Spirulina is found in most quality foods for a natural promotion of blues and greens
Astaxanthin is used for reds, orange and yellows.