21 replies to this topic

[Zrydes]

Please fill out as much as possible below and give us a description of what is wrong with your fish.

Type of fish:5 jurupari green horse face 3 red horse face 2 bristlenoses and 1 gold panchax killie fish
Symptoms: red worms protruding from anus
Other tank mates:/
Tank size / capacity:165l
Type of Food fed: brine shrimp blood worms peas Spirulina flakes and discus pellets
Feeding frequency/amount: once a day enough for them all of them
Substrate: bare bottom since worm infestation noticed sand before that
Type of filtration: AR 850 top filter and canister rated for 200l tanks
Frequency of filter cleans: New tank set up
Frequency and % volume of water changes:10-20%
Last water change: Weekly water changes does every week
Water temp:26/27
Medications used recently to date: fenbenozole
Any recent changes..new fish/filters/power outages etc etc: complete new setup I have removed the most affected fish from other tanks and they have slowly died off except for whats mentioned above I have lost 1 green horse face 4 discus 4 killie fish 2 albino bristle nose. the albino bristlenoses were the cause of the issue dieing not long after I got them then all the others become sick. I have tried a few differnet types of medicine and have reduced the population of worms multiple times but never gotten rid of them completely i am trying to treat this 1 tank successfully then i will move on to dosing my other tanks. i have 7 tanks ranging from 20l to 500l and a few hundred fish i do not lose fish for any reason other then aggression/ heater issues so this is really starting to get to me and im unsure what medicine to try next please let me know if you have ever successfully treated CALLAMANUS WORMS!! (what did you do??)

[Westie]

Give Aquotix in Canning Vale a call and ask what they can do for you

http://www.aquariumo...site-clear-50g/

They post too

[bigjohnnofish]

camallanus worms are unfortunately pretty common at the moment - a reminder to everybody to quarantine new fish....

 

use levamisole to eradicate camallanus worms.... fenbendazole wipes out a lot of worms and to an extent some of the weaker camallanus worms... but doesnt get them all...

 

have found levamisole to be effective in eradication.... see olley at aquotix and he can put you onto some im sure.... be sure to tell him how big your tanks are ask how it effects your bacteria.... some people with less knowledge will tell you it doesnt effect beneficial bacteria but this isnt quite so... and some people will say 2 treatments only will do the job... when you really need 3 treatments spaced apart.... directions will be on the bottle no doubt... 

 

i hate camallanus worms... treated a tank years ago and thought they were gone and 6 mths later turned up again in same tank... had nothing new into the tank or even the room so must have missed some or eggs first time around... most of the time you dont see them until fish start dying and you start looking extra hard with lights out... worms more active at night....

http://www.perthcich...showtopic=12291

[Buccal]

Usually after treatment some eggs remain as eggs don't get killed during treatment.
This is why a week or so after treatment, it gets treatment again.
Basically you wait for remaining eggs to hatch so you can do treatment again to kill the rest.

Turn off all uv units.
Keep lights of.
Cease feeding.

Aqoutix treatment in one of the above posts treats a number of species of worms, not just the basics like levasimole, though levisimole is extremely effective for the ones it does kill.

Be very careful if not using engineered specific fish treatments,,,, as it effects the nervous systems of fish which makes them twitchy and sit on bottom for the treatment.

Full patience, and full treatment round/dosage must be applied.
Be careful with products not intended for fish, but they work and are fine done correctly. Big L cattle drench and powder form levasimole poultry grades work,,, Again be careful,,, Recommend the specific treatment from Aqoutix though.

Edited by Buccal, 28 November 2015 - 08:20 AM.

[sydad]

Usually after treatment some eggs remain as eggs don't get killed during treatment.
This is why a week or so after treatment, it gets treatment again.
Basically you wait for remaining eggs to hatch so you can do treatment again to kill the rest.

Turn off all uv units.
Keep lights of.
Cease feeding.

Aqoutix treatment in one of the above posts treats a number of species of worms, not just the basics like levasimole, though levisimole is extremely effective for the ones it does kill.

Be very careful if not using engineered specific fish treatments,,,, as it effects the nervous systems of fish which makes them twitchy and sit on bottom for the treatment.

Full patience, and full treatment round/dosage must be applied.
Be careful with products not intended for fish, but they work and are fine done correctly. Big L cattle drench and powder form levasimole poultry grades work,,, Again be careful,,, Recommend the specific treatment from Aqoutix though.

 

Camalanus worms are livebearers, so do not produce eggs. This is one reason they are so readily transmissable, since the wriggling young are readily eaten by even adult fish. Levamisole fails to kill the worms, but rather paralyses them, causing them to be readily expelled, but many fish will eat the expelled worms, and some invariably survive, so reinfection occurs readily, unless steps are taken to eliminate the paralysed worms (careful siphoning of the whole tank bottom....this is why treatment is preferable in bare-bottom tanks.).

 

Syd.

[Buccal]

Not sure how you get your rigid info....
Below is some cut and paste.... Just some common info that can be found at a instant on google.
But if fish accept medication in food,, then this in addition to treating water as more thorough.


These worms are nasty little buggers and cause serious damage even death to any fish they infect. Camallanus Worms are more common than thought of in the home aquarium, and can often be the cause if you have a few unexplained deaths in a short period of time. They do not discriminate when choosing a host and will infect any fish that they come in contact with. One of the problems with having Camallanus Worms in the tank is how quickly they can infect all fish in the tanks. This is because fish like to eat them, and once they have made their way into the intestines they lay their eggs and the cycle continues. They are also very easily transferred from tank to tank without your knowledge just by the using nets or other aquarium equipment for multiple tanks. Within a matter of days you can have all your tanks infected. For this reason if you do have or suspect you have fish with Camallanus then you should treat all tanks.

The best sign of Camallanus Worms is the red thread-like protrusions from the anus area of the fish. However there are other signs that the fish are infected. A sunken in stomach and not eating are also good signs that the fish is infected with an internal parasite.

This picture shows how the camallanus worms infected a 5cm Albino Bristlenose. With treatment this little fella pulled through and made a 100% recovery.

If you click on the pic, it will show up larger.

Now for the treatments.

There are plenty of different de-wormers on the market. Not all are available world wide, so you will have to have a look around and see whats available in your region.

The most common form of treatment for this is to use Levamisole*. Levamisole is a great fast-acting de-wormer and is highly recommended for the treatment of internal parasites amongst fish. The dosage for levamisole is 2ppm. Or according to packaging here in Australia it works out as 1ml per 7 litres of aquarium water.

I personally have used and highly recommend Avitrol Plus**. It is a combination of Levamisole with a small amount of Praziquantel. It is available in both liquid form and in tablet form. For the tablet form the dosage is 1 tablet per 10 litres of aquarium water and for the liquid form it is 1ml per 5 litres (I have never personally used the liquid form).

Now that we have covered the medications and dosages its time to discuss the best plan of action while using these.
It is best to dose the tank on a day when you will be around. From the time you add the treatment it can take less than 6 hours for the worms to start being excreted from the fish. During this time you need to keep a vigilant watch on them. This is because both the above medications paralise the worms, forcing them to release their hold on the intestinal walls and then be passed out of the body. It does not kill them. They then fall to the bottom of the tank, and will become food if they are not syphoned out of the tank, then continuing the cycle.

This is the recommended course of treatment when treating with Levamisole or a Levamisole based medication.

Step 1.
Work out the correct dosage (the doses for levamisole and avitrol plus are above, for any other med please refer to the packaging) For levamisole and Levamisole based medications it is a dosage equivalent to 2ppm. Do NOT add extra. Adding extra of these meds will not speed up the process, it will only cause more stress to your fish.

Step 2.
Add the correct dosage and regularly check the fish from about 4hrs after treatment. The majority of the worms will be excreted within 24 hours. Make sure you vacuum up any that you can see lying on the bottom of the tank as they will get eaten, continuing the cycle. Do not do a water change now as you will only be removing the med from the water too soon.

Step 3.
Do a water change on day 3. This is because Levamisole takes approx 3 days to be absorbed and have the remainder excreted by the fish. Dont do a large water change, just approximately 30% will do fine. Doing a larger one will only add more unnecessary stress on the fish.

Step 4.
This step is a relatively easy one. 2 weeks after first treatment, repeat steps 1-3 again. This is just to make sure that any eggs that may have hatched will be taken care of.

Step 5.
This is only recommended, it is up to you if you do it or not, but I recommend repeating the treatment again 2 weeks later. The treatment schedule should be: first treatment, 2nd treatment (2 weeks after 1st treatment) and 3rd treatment (2 weeks after 2nd treatment). I like to do this just to be 100% certain of removing all traces of these worms.

I have never lost one fish after finding out of this treatment and have never had another outbreak either. Most fish will pull through unless they have been badly infected, in which case the treatment was started to late to help. Not all fish though will recover completely. I have had one fish a female Kingsizei, (which no matter how much she was fed, what she was fed, or her tank conditions) she never regained her health. She remained very thin. This was because she had been badly infected and the worms had caused serious injury to her intestinal tract. That is just another complication these worms can have.

If you suspect your fish of having these parasites, then start treatment as soon as possible to give your fish the best chance of a complete recovery.

* Levamisole is a bridwormer and therefore is available from most pet produce stores. Here is the link to an article on Levamisole Hydrochloride. It is a very indepth article. http://www.loaches.c...hydrochloride-1**Avitrol Plus is also a birdwormer. It is available from most pet produce stores. I highly recommend it.

Edited by Buccal, 28 November 2015 - 06:16 PM.

[sydad]

Not sure how you get your rigid info....
Below is some cut and paste.... Just some common info that can be found at a instant on google.
But if fish accept medication in food,, then this in addition to treating water as more thorough.


I assume this comment was aimed at me. I do not know what you mean by rigid info, but I obtain my information from a number of sources; mainly scientific publications (as a medical scientist, and one who has studied parasitology, this is more or less second nature to me).

It is possible that in trying to clarify the point about Camallanus worms being live bearers, I have been imprecise. What i should have said is that most Camallanus spp.do not void ova directly into fish faeces, but that the ova hatch in utero, and are expelled as first stage, active larvae (ovo-vivaparous). These appear to be an attractive food source for most fishes. It is interesting to note that most nematode parasites require intermediate hosts such as cyclops or similar crustacea, in order to complete life cycles. , but generally speaking, Camallanus spp. seem to be able to bypass this requirement. There is a brief article from a recognised scientist here:     http://www.fishchann...anus-worms.aspx

 

I researched the topic of Camallanus spp. many years ago, and find that googling can just lead to confusion unless one is capable of sorting the dross (most) from useful information.

One thing I can say is that the best treatment for Camallanus infestations is the use of Ivermectin. This synthetic antibiotic tends to be rapidly fatal for most nematodes, including Camallanus spp., but I would not recommend its use by most aquarists, as the curative dose needs to be very accurately determined: a fatal dose can be as little as 5% higher than the killing dose required for Camallanus..

 

Sorry if you find this rigid!

 

Syd.

 

 

Edited by sydad, 29 November 2015 - 12:19 AM.

[bigjohnnofish]

another quick copy paste from google - 

 

Camallanus worms can take up 6-12 weeks to develop to a large enough size or to multiply enough for the average aquarist to notice.

 

thats the bit i dont like... takes time to find out if you have really wiped them out or not......

 

and syd as far as im aware camallanus worms do lay eggs.... have also read they can shed their skin and it splits up and develops into smaller worms.... but i suspect there is more than one variation on the camallanus worm..... 

[Buccal]

Not sure how you get your rigid info....
Below is some cut and paste.... Just some common info that can be found at a instant on google.
But if fish accept medication in food,, then this in addition to treating water as more thorough.
I assume this comment was aimed at me. I do not know what you mean by rigid info, but I obtain my information from a number of sources; mainly scientific publications (as a medical scientist, and one who has studied parasitology, this is more or less second nature to me).
It is possible that in trying to clarify the point about Camallanus worms being live bearers, I have been imprecise. What i should have said is that most Camallanus spp.do not void ova directly into fish faeces, but that the ova hatch in utero, and are expelled as first stage, active larvae (ovo-vivaparous). These appear to be an attractive food source for most fishes. It is interesting to note that most nematode parasites require intermediate hosts such as cyclops or similar crustacea, in order to complete life cycles. , but generally speaking, Camallanus spp. seem to be able to bypass this requirement. There is a brief article from a recognised scientist here:     http://www.fishchann...anus-worms.aspx
 
I researched the topic of Camallanus spp. many years ago, and find that googling can just lead to confusion unless one is capable of sorting the dross (most) from useful information.
One thing I can say is that the best treatment for Camallanus infestations is the use of Ivermectin. This synthetic antibiotic tends to be rapidly fatal for most nematodes, including Camallanus spp., but I would not recommend its use by most aquarists, as the curative dose needs to be very accurately determined: a fatal dose can be as little as 5% higher than the killing dose required for Camallanus..
 
Sorry if you find this rigid!
 
Syd.

Rigid = stern or certainty, positively.
But your description of different worm type habits,,, this is why I mentioned that Aqoutix treatment is a better coverage for a wider range of specie kill,,,, whilst levasimole can only target a few species.
About google..... Being mixed info,,, trust me, I'm good enough to pull out the info that suits the situation.
After all,,, majority of my info does not come from study or passing on info from others.
It's all mainly extensive experience and findings.
Google are just tools for battle when rigidly opposed......

[shayne]

Hey Buccal! Fond of google try googling aquatic earthworms, or just search Terry:s White worm threads on this site. You might realise you can be wrong, might help with that stiffness.

[Buccal]

Hey Buccal! Fond of google try googling aquatic earthworms, or just search Terry:s White worm threads on this site. You might realise you can be wrong, might help with that stiffness.

What does google aquatic earthworms or Terrys worm threads have to do with this ???
So what part was I wrong with Mr.

[shayne]

Yes, i went of topic to previous post were you were quite rigid.But wrong. Tried to let it slide but im having a bad day, bit cranky,it involved worms. 

[Buccal]

Which post was I rigid but wrong ????
I like to learn where Im wrong on things, so I can obtain correct information.

[shayne]

Sorry Buccal meant thread,i have bumped the thread i was referring to [ I dont know where to turn] Sorry to have hijacked this thread folks i was having a grumpy old man day. My apologies.

[Buccal]

These aquatic earthworms are found as indigenous species to our metropolitan areas.
As a kid I found many of these, all different types,,,, most weird ones I found was Gwelup area in the peat marsh areas,,, but all houses now.
Carine lake and areas around Goolallel and Yellagonga.
Those plus leeches and all the other wacky stuff.
I lived in the mud n swamps as a kid,,, literally.
Being 40 years old now,,, I saw some pretty prestine stuff,,, not like the smellly mosquito ridden polluted crap bits left.

But as you mentioned on the other post being wrong in my rigid manor,,,,, can't see how I was wrong here even if the worms weren't black worms,,,,, I merely gave a suggestion.
As proper identification especially worms, I will not be firm or certain unless a clear proper picture is given, and of course I know what it is.

I was surprised to see you jump down my throat saying I was rigid but quite wrong.
When really there was nothing to properly see or go by,,,, thus only being a suggestion.
I know you said you had a bad day,,,, but this very thing is a big issue I come up against from time to time.
It's pretty clear that I'm seen as a nuisance know it all and not appreciated or properly judged,,,,, by a few

[Delapool]

Appreciating the discussion. I've seen threads saying the worms are killed off and others saying they are just paralysed. Wondering which it is? Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shayne]

These aquatic earthworms are found as indigenous species to our metropolitan areas.
As a kid I found many of these, all different types,,,, most weird ones I found was Gwelup area in the peat marsh areas,,, but all houses now.
Carine lake and areas around Goolallel and Yellagonga.
Those plus leeches and all the other wacky stuff.
I lived in the mud n swamps as a kid,,, literally.
Being 40 years old now,,, I saw some pretty prestine stuff,,, not like the smellly mosquito ridden polluted crap bits left.

But as you mentioned on the other post being wrong in my rigid manor,,,,, can't see how I was wrong here even if the worms weren't black worms,,,,, I merely gave a suggestion.
As proper identification especially worms, I will not be firm or certain unless a clear proper picture is given, and of course I know what it is.

I was surprised to see you jump down my throat saying I was rigid but quite wrong.
When really there was nothing to properly see or go by,,,, thus only being a suggestion.
I know you said you had a bad day,,,, but this very thing is a big issue I come up against from time to time.
It's pretty clear that I'm seen as a nuisance know it all and not appreciated or properly judged,,,,, by a few

UMM,in other thread you clearly said my suggestion was wrong because earthworms dont survive underwater,now conceding to be aware of them.I sulked,vented[was precious perhaps] apologised dont pick up your bat and ball and go home.You seem to be a very knowledgeable/advanced aquariast and as such have a lot to offer us all.I consider my self a rookie and cant teach anyone here any thing. Loosen up

[Buccal]

Sorry I didn't see how this ended,,, that's cool, cheers Shayne,,,,,, but if you put a common garden earthworm under water,,, then within 2 hours up to 1 day, it will die.

[Buccal]

Appreciating the discussion. I've seen threads saying the worms are killed off and others saying they are just paralysed. Wondering which it is? Thanks!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Answer is paralyzed going by googled or book info,,,, but I've had people in situations taking my advice to use Big L cattle drench and has killed the worms.
The Big L though notably makes the fish more jumpy effecting nervous systems a little more.
The worms were also clearly seen hanging from anus before treatment.

The powdered levasimole used for poultry or bird situations,,, seems weaker which I'd believe the worms likely just get paralyzed.
Though the differences could just be difference in dosing or medication strength.
Maybe cattle drench being a external treatment needs to be much stronger.

I use to use big L once a year as preventative measures through entire sump system, but I stopped as I was getting worried with the stingrays acting strangely after treatments.......

[Mr_docfish]

The powdered Levamisole HCl is the same active ingredient as in BigL - so same effect if used in same dose - if the fish become aggitated (depending on species) then you may have to re-calculate the dose rate.... Though the higher the dose rate, the higher the kill rate on the worms.... Lower doses will only temporarily paralyse the worms.
It is advisable if one was to do regular treatments, to change the dose rate in small increments until the desired effect is reached (no worms hanging out of anus after 24hours) without noticable effect of fishes mental state. This will change according to the species of fish and water parameters. Short term higher dose rates with less regular re-treatments can be used with most fish species, but be cautious... Side effects are generally only temporary.