15 replies to this topic

[Buccal]

Sorry to drag this out.

But in relation to the locked thread and the direction it went in.
All this is absolutely nothing to do with what's a lot of money.
There is a structured value system with many value levels.
All I ask from all this,,,,, is just for all to simply have respect for it.

You guys likely will see some rarer ones filter through the sponsors further down the nearish track,,, but like always with rares I don't bring hundreds through like electric yellows or venustus,,,,,, there are not truckloads being held back just a few.
Dribs and drabs only filter east anyway.

Think of it like car yards,,, they are full of cars up to value of $60000 because these are affordable.
Cars worth $200000 plus they have to be ordered in or there are only one or two here and there.
Every one wants these fancy cars but can't afford them,,,, the fancy car can't just be made the same price as the affordable ones.
This structured system puts a extra interesting spin to the hobby.
There are few breeders out there that only delve in expensive stuff,,,, and this is another type of avenue breeder and usually the more experienced one,,,,, but if the fish were made cheap, that breeder may not touch them,,,, and this is ok as it's a free hobby,,, all our choices are correct.
If the hobbiest spends his own money on fish,,,, he can act out any way he decides.
Open arms to all types of breeders equals a stronger hobby.
But not the hybriders lol.

Oh and Tarpon, hope no hard feelings Doc,, because i was never upset,,, i was just pointing out to assumption making . if you looked at all my wording,,,,I did state some are able to and will buy the higher ranged fish in Perth,,, it's just the over all higher end specie buyer is low,,,, this heavily contributes to value decrease fast because price must be bought down to sell.
Usually once price over east drops by about 30%,,, then it's in line to bring out here as a rough gauge.
And some rare fish have gone to our shops here,,, but no one has seemed to have done any thing to breed them.
So I'll try my hardest to get a few out here,,, I just don't do to many,,, as believe it or not I do find it not that easy to sell rare stuff,,,, but I still have to respect the value. (shops generally take care of that part in relation to what I sell them for).

At the end of the day,,, it's the good quality of the popular bread n butter stuff that does the best,,, it pays for everything.

But as a experienced breeder,,, it's the full package that gives the hobby a full satisfied passion fix.
It's the full total interesting combination of :
The pure love for the fish.
The husbandry and total requirements from water to the animal itself.
The ethical structure and bussiness sales/marketing.
The respect between the breeder and the shop.
The joy of seeing hobbyists enjoying their fish.

It's very forfilling as a oz wide thing and extremely challenging.
Malawi and tang fish are so so diverse it creates a almost never ending interest

[Fox]

Thanks for starting another thread I can see where everyone was going and it really had nothing to do with the point I was making.

 

So anyhoooooo, lets get onto to what your saying above.

I agree with some of what your saying. I agree that the rare stuff needs to stay up there in the hobby. If every Tom, Dick & Harry got hold of the cool rare stuff it would be bred like rabbits and then someone would screw up somewhere along the line and produce some crap and get it on the market, Pseudotropheus elongatus 'spot' is a prime example of this. What a beautiful fish that is "hard to find" at times, but whats the point in finding and breeding them anymore?
The species in Oz is wrecked! No matter who spawns them, The line is wrecked for good.

 

 

What if the big breeders put a list out there for the guys in the hobby who are dedicated to keeping good lines of all the stuff they have up for grabs?
Now I know of some breeders who have many different species that Im sure they cant sell to the shops due to the price being to high to retail, so what not offer them to the club guys?
It might entice people who have huge disposable incomes to spend their money on something worth while instead of smoking, drinking, fishing, traveling etc etc *Waits for the flaming hahaha*

 

I know some of the species who have Buccal, I don't tell anyone as its your business and not mine to tell people & I know your a pretty private kinda guy.

Of course give the shops first choice, but if they don't want them...... why not bring some of those cool species to the auction? Or advertise some on the forum?
 

[Holmzy]

I agree I think some club member and the new up and coming members would love to get some rarer types in for there own collection. Including me.
Iv not been happy about the lack of tangs around and want to bring them back. When researching I was told by many people tangs were everywhere in wa but always shipped east now we struggling.

Is it about time we kept the stock in wa since new laws coming in ?

[Buccal]

I can see what your saying for sure.
For me,,, it's the shops or nothing,,, if it can't pass through the shops, then it can't pass.
PLEASE no one feel off put at this.
It's easy for me as I do large numbers only (you know,, in one night I may strip well over 2000 fry !!!!) that's till 12 o'clock at night stuff,,, and hey I don't get paid for that.
I don't have problems selling fish,,, as the east absorbs quite well (no I'm not controdicting).
Not saying east is better either,,, is simply just population.
1 in 1000 fish keepers as example may be same comparing Sydney to Perth,,, but population total east is huge.

Also the higher the price,, the less that sell,, not just cause I can,,, it's because it cost me more to purchase to begin with.
So easy does it, a little here a little there,,,, it keeps it all alive.
If people are serious,,, people will buy.

Just because it's worth more and sells slower it doesn't mean I will spread it out to every one cheap,,,, I'd like to make my money back on what I paid for them.....
It's all still doing great justice to the hobby,, and I think I devote enough time as it is to the hobby.
Some I make a little profit,,, but then that will make up for the ones I don't,,,, so it's not that black and white.

Really you know,,, there has been rare stuff through the shops here,,, it's the actual people who do regular visits to the main shops that have swiped them through the past.

Oh and Ronny,,, no mate,,, apart from yoinking a few females to beef up colonies,,, I have never done the hold back female thing ever.
As it comes out, is the way it goes out.

Another thing,,, I saw some talk of this Hajo breeder and all the nothing but males in the shops.
I've been to this breeders house to buy C.spilorinchus, good fish to,,, he has tank after tank of hajos of all sizes,,,, hundreds upon hundreds,,,,,,, and all freakin males,,, they are breeding super male heavy and can't work it out,,, he only had three females he was able to produce.
I think his original colony was about 8 or so female.
He's desperately looking for other pure proper bloodline to mix in,,, for the hope of female increase.
Things are not always as it seems.....

I agree I think some club member and the new up and coming members would love to get some rarer types in for there own collection. Including me.
Iv not been happy about the lack of tangs around and want to bring them back. When researching I was told by many people tangs were everywhere in wa but always shipped east now we struggling.
Is it about time we kept the stock in wa since new laws coming in ?

That's a simple one mate,,,, fish popularity goes in cycles as I've mentioned before.
Tangs do go into strong favor,,,, but oz wide ATM and for some time,, the Malawi are in super strong favor,,, the way I love it.

[bigjohnnofish]

try changing the PH before the fish spawn... if they are in high PH try going lower.... and vice versa if your currently in low PH..... or try lower/higher water temperatures... two of the biggest factors in determining sex ratios of lots of fish....

[deliriouz]

Perhaps PCS should start a new forum section for serious breeders that lists what these people are keeping. Would obviously be a fluid list and would have to be left to each breeder to keep updating their threads. Not only will this be useful for the public to be able to source fish locally but may help to give everyone an idea what is around and what isn't. I tend to buy fish from over east but would rather buy them locally if I knew they were available here.

[Buccal]

try changing the PH before the fish spawn... if they are in high PH try going lower.... and vice versa if your currently in low PH..... or try lower/higher water temperatures... two of the biggest factors in determining sex ratios of lots of fish....

He's had these for years,,,, tried every trick under the sun including that.
Likely a low probability genetic sequence.

[Buccal]

Perhaps PCS should start a new forum section for serious breeders that lists what these people are keeping. Would obviously be a fluid list and would have to be left to each breeder to keep updating their threads. Not only will this be useful for the public to be able to source fish locally but may help to give everyone an idea what is around and what isn't. I tend to buy fish from over east but would rather buy them locally if I knew they were available here.

What everyone on pcs must realise, is that the pcs members are not the fish keeping population of Perth.
When I talk about the buying habits in Perth, pcs members fast get a feeling of being critasized.
Pcs crew only make up maybe about 2-5% of shop sales, I could be well of but it's Definetely a low percentage,,,, shops can only act in relation to public demand.......... And for breeders it's the same,,, all these big ideas of lots of big breeders and list exposing,,,, there just isnt as much as all this going on,,, as there's only so many buyers to buy fish,,,,, there is no big scale tragedy going on.
"rare fish",,, is a very multi shaded grey statement,,, what is rare in ones eyes may not be in another.
A typical fresher fish keeper,, may see a fish in a shop twice and rule it out as not being rare.

I think all this is just a grass seams better on the other side thing,,,,, what east considers rare is in Perth and what Perth considers rare is in the east,,,,,, and it just keeps going like that,,,, this is how breeders from both sides can do well.

No one,,,,, lose sight of important species being lost,,, all those firm favorite delightful and colorful fish which all fish keepers like and are great candidates for aquarium life,,,,, these are lost due to popularity cycles and money issues.
Rare fish are usually rare for a good reason from multitudes of things,,, like getting to big,, agression,, breedability and all round interest.

There are so so many rift lake Cichlid types,,, look at popular cichlids of the past and breed these to save there existence.
Don't lose sight of what is,,, a tank full of expensive fish will never do as well for sales as a tank full of cheap quality electric yellow.

[malawiman85]

How bout offer a species up for a potential group buy here on PCS? For instance; A breeder offers whatever species at a non negotiable price then whoever is mad keen to buy can organize with other buyers, the organiser collects the cash, pays the breeder and in exchange gets a big ol box of fish, the organiser then divides the fish amongst the buyers. Everyone wins, right?

[jeffblack]

Big open day at Buccals place , bring ya wallets and beer, Buccal would love that

[Buccal]

"everyone ?"
Everyone except for the most important party,,, the shops.

Fish entering the public via the shops is a healthy hobby.

Flooding a small market that Perth is all once with wanted fish will not do any favors for the fish.
A wanted fish is more cherished and worked harder with by small breeders when in low abundance.

Market flooding is main contributor to fish loss to begin with.
Plus,,,,,, no breeder raises large numbers of everything at once.
It's always a little bit of this and a little bit of that and trickle it out,,,, everything stays new and fresh and the breeder can keep passing out the fish,,,,, this even works better when spreading oz wide,,,,, exhausting all avenues with to many numbers never works.

In the past I've been disliked a lot on here because I turn this easy going casual fun free hobby into a set of rules with shoulds and shouldnts,,, with techniques that don't nessesarily with aquarists considering themselves as purists and doing the exact requirements for each specie.
I'm just here in the hobby doing my duty for life, as I'll grow old until I no longer can maintain my aquariums due to health.
I'll give up hours of time in my free time to give advice via emails to anyone that needs help.
Now I'm feeling like a broken down record having to repeat what I've already said to answer the why can't you just ???
The shops aren't these reckless over charging beasts that so many people portray to me when asking me to sell them fish privately.
The Perth main shops do it fairly tough compared to east where's there's more heads.
The BIG word overheads forces the shops to really work hard to make things affordable for the public at the same time as struggling.
The more the shops are backdoored to fish and online sales,,, the weaker the hobby becomes.
Sometimes I wonder what must go through the mind of shop keepers being a catch 22 thing.
Being a sponsor contributing to the club,,, yet the activity within the club induces sales away from the shops.

Take some time to think how much the shops give and don't receive,,, sure they get exposure,,, but remember the percentage of their customers from the pcs is roughly 2-5%.
If shops told me they wouldn't buy from me any more, I wouldn't start selling privately, I'd just reduce what I keep and just cruise along enjoying my favorites.

[Buccal]

Big open day at Buccals place , bring ya wallets and beer, Buccal would love that

Hah ha I'd poop myself.
I don't want center attention myself here,,, but the way I carry on, anyone and most are surprised when they meet me how I'm nothing like they thought I'd be.
Whilst I wouldn't classify this being a phobia by any means,,, but I feel intensely uncomfortable around large groups of people.
Funny thing is,, I have a adverse effect "where I feel I look obvious freaking out",,,, I actually go into counter active mode and behave as I'm open and very talkative,,,,, I kind of evolved this having to face the business world to survive,,, I cant be a 40 year living with mum and dad looking after me lol.
Soooo, enough of my weird s h i t, I feel very exhausted after being amongst a group.
So this is the reason why no one sees me putting myself out there.
I live in the sticks amongst the electric blue wrens, white parrots, black parrots, snakes and everything one can think of in a bush paradise.
I'm like a hermit lol.

Edited by Buccal, 20 September 2014 - 11:36 AM.

[jeffblack]

Just revving you up  , purists are few and far between in the hobby, keep doing what you do, your opinions are always informative and well respected on these pages as it is on the interstate pages I follow.

[Bombshocked]

Whilst I wouldn't classify this being a phobia by any means,,, but I feel intensely uncomfortable around large groups of people.

 

i thought this was normal.....

[Buccal]

Hmm, so I've been told,,, different levels for different people I guess,,,, I'm on the more intense side I'd say.

[bigjohnnofish]

i feel it would be more advantageous to people who are looking for the rarer fish to ask their local fishop if they are available and can be sourced... if not then hit the forums and facebook pages and place wanted adds everywhere,,,, a backyard person willing to help you out will contact you and avoid the limelight in the process.... win/win situation....

 

sorry i'd describe buccal as the OCD of fish keepers... attention to detail would amaze you  a photo of the most impressive display tank i have seen would blow you away