3 replies to this topic

[Flash Pleco]

Hi all,

Sorry for long post but am going to go into heaps of detail because water conditions seem ok and I'm at a loss.

I lost my first pictus two days ago and joined PCS last night hoping to save my second pictus but couldn't post (being a newbie.) Sadly found him dead this morning. Am devastated to have lost them but want to save my bristlenose!

I have a 4'x2'x2' community tank.

Moved in with BF in May, set up the 4'x2'x2' with filter, heater, malleyroots, couple of smallish chunks of limestone and a handful of plants from old (smaller) tank about 3-4 weeks before I moved. Set it up as if it had fish, with water conditioner and a small amount of rock salt.
Moved with 2 x 18cm clown loaches , a 10cm male bristlenose, a couple of cories and a couple of cardinals. The others didn't survive the move unfortunately.

First added a handful of swordtail platies a couple of months ago for some colour (slim pickings down this way) and 4 more baby bristlenoses (which are now about 4 times the size!)
About a month ago found and couldn't resist 2 Pimelodus pictus (old fave) and a Synodontis eupterus.

Have been doing water changes about every 3 weeks (about 1/3-1/2 tank because the malleyroots are still leaching colour so tank is going yellow) I always use water conditioner, a little rock salt, small amount of Stresscoat and Melafix, as well as adjusting pH of tap water to close to tank pH (allowing for small tank corrections)
Filter is more than adequate as ex and I had a 30cm sailfin gibbiceps and a couple of similar sized lancers at the time we got it so wanted a hefty filtration system - enormous Eheim - turnover 6xph from memory?? (memory is questionable but I know we got one suitable for a 6'x2'x2' in case we wanted to upsize our tank)

Tested the water last night when second pictus found looking ill - sluggishly swimming in the open, whiskers seeming fizzled and mouth a bit pink. Large original bristlenose male was under his rock upside down as usual but not attached and was 'panting'. All other fish seem fine. Clownies are fine, mouths not red. Small bristlenoses happy as Larry.

GH= somewhere between 60-120 (couldn't tell shade of blue sorry)
KH= 40
pH= 6.5
NO2= 0.5
NO3= 30

Added treatment-strength dose of Melafix and Stresscoat and teaspoon bicarb as I couldn't do a water change that late at night and still make it to work today. Water change done today and bristlenose is still 'panting'. All other fish still seem fine.

I feed a combo of algae wafers, willow wood wafers, flakes and aqualife pellets, and a couple of times a week shelled peas and either frozen bloodworms or brineshrimp.

I'm at a loss. Could I be overfeeding? Bloodworms off? Rotting plants? The malleyroots? When I first saw the pictus I thought it might be a pH problem but 6.5 wouldn't burn their whiskers like that!

Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

[bigjohnnofish]

long post requires a long answer....

catfish dont like rock salt.

all fish dont like ammonia and nitrite...
you have a small nitrite reading which indicates to me you have had an ammonia spike and your bacteria/filtration (known as biofilter) has been playing catchup... an increase in either food waste , fish waste , rotting plant waste etc has contributed to more ammonia being produced in your tank that your established bacteria can handle.... bacteria numbers can double every 15 hours given ideal conditions... so increased ammonia has triggered your bacteria to reproduce to cope with this increase of ammonia hence when you tested the water ammonia read zero as the bacteria had caught up... ammonia is converted to nitrite firstly then nitrite is converted into the less toxic state of nitrate... which leads to the reason you have a small nitrite reading... you have tested before the bacteria caught up with the nitrite thats why you got a small reading.... im guessing if you test again first thing in the morning your nitrite reading will be zero... thus being the case you now know what happened...

during an ammonia spike / nitrite spike fish can be damaged... some fish are more vulnerable to ammonia damage than others... it burns their gills hence the reason you see fish puffing....
catfish tending to be bottom dwellers are exposed to ammonia first as it tends to form at the bottom of your tank initially....
your catties being young were prob more vulnerable than adult catties... but you can lose bigger fish too especially if they have underlying conditions anyway....

i'd recommend changing your waterchanging routine to 25% water change once a week.... your nitrates arent high but 30ppm can quickly become 80ppm or higher.....
the mallee roots wont be any issue and the tanins that are released in the water that make it go yellowy brown arent an issue either... PH is good... didnt see a temp ?

after re-reading i didnt see a test for ammonia? i thought i saw a zero reading

check for ammonia and nitrite in the morning and re-post.... method of treatment get some prime and add as per label instruction to detoxify ammonia/nitrite
hopefully the spike has passed and everything will get better... back feeding off a little and dont add any fish till your happy everything has settled...

[Flash Pleco]

Thanks for the reply!

So I killed my pictus through negligence.

Oops, sorry, forgot to post the ammonia reading! It was zero. The burn factor was why I threw a lot of Stresscoat into the tank last night. I managed to nurse my clownies back from being very ill about 8 years ago after an ammonia spike a few weeks after a house move. Their mouths were red raw the poor things. Water change every three days and a LOT of Stresscoat.

I only add a little rock salt (about a 1/4 teaspoon per bucket) because I'm trying for a happy medium to keep both cats and bumblebee gobies (which like brackish) when I can get up to Perth to get some. There's nothing like seeing a bumblebee sitting on a gibbo's head because it thinks it's a rock Although of course I don't have my gibbo any more. Ex got custody of him and the lancers and then sold them But they did go to a 6' tank so good for them. I do want to eventually get lancers again - gorgeous creatures but quite shy.

I have removed a lot of the floating ferns and planted the rest (the fish dig them up and they multiply readily) and will watch my feeding quantities in future. Didn't think I was overdoing it because my clownies can eat a whole algae wafer each and look for more and I only put two in per day plus about 8-9 of the little willow ones (about 1/4 teaspoon) which the bristlenoses and cories seem to love. The platies and cardinals eat the flakes and the aqualife pellets (also about 1/4 teaspoon) are a free for all. Does that sound like too much?
Will also do smaller water changes more often (it's sometimes hard to fit it in every weekend but I'll aim for it)

Temp is not certain because the thermometer appears to have died but I put an exterior thermometer up and it's reading low twenties, so being winter and ambient temp being cooler, plus a few degrees puts it at mid twenties approx. Will replace thermometer this weekend. Heater is definitely working and sufficient for the tank size, and the halogens also add heat.

Will add Prime to the weekend shopping list too, thanks for the recommendation.

I hope the tank has stabilised. I am buying an L066 from a friend who is moving in a couple of weeks and we don't want the poor fish to move house twice in a few weeks, but then I don't want to kill it either!

[Flash Pleco]

Did another water test tonight and had strange and unexpected results.
Ammonia still nil
GH= 60
KH= nil (dropped from 40 last test)
pH= 6.5
NO2= 0.5 (no change)
NO3= 40 (up slightly)

This suggests the tank is still out of whack. Will make sure I get the Prime this weekend and do another water change. Will also take water sample in to get tested independently.

Bristlenose seems to have a different issue though which I'll start a new thread for, and as the rest of the fish seem happy, I think with due attention, I can make sure the tank is over the worst. I've learned my lesson - never presume you can slack off because the tank is lightly populated.

Edited by Flash Pleco, 08 September 2012 - 02:01 AM.