123 replies to this topic

[Den]

I'm not in disagreement with you Andrew, I expressed a common doubt, so I found some info, which points out the this doubt does not seem valid. However the long payback and low power output still makes the average solar system unattractive to me, and I dont trust that all manufacturers will be around in 10 years time to replace all their failing equipment which needs to run at least that amount of time to make it worth your time and money.

Also have you heard about the new natural gas powered home generators? When I was in Frankfurt late 2008 I heard a rumour they were going to be a big hit in Europe and I think one of the car companies had plans to make some many millions of them.

Anyway for me Ive become a watt watcher, Ive been cutting down on all unnecessary power usage and making sure all aquarium equipment has a low power hunger. So far Ive cut my power bill down by about 20% while at the same time I have doubled the number of tanks I have running!

Cheers
Den

[werdna]

Sorry Den, I'm not used to you changing opinions in a post.
Wasn't expecting it so didn't see it I guess!
I heard about lng cars about 7 years ago. I think Honda made a demo one with a built in compressor. You connected it to your home gas line and overnight it would fill up. I thought that was brilliant. But where is it? Never seen it since.
I also saw an article on a murdoch uni concept of connecting a weighted buoy to an underwater piston water pump. The waves would make the piston move up and down, which would pump water to shore, turn an electric generator, then some water would go through a RO filter and you would get free power and fresh water. But last thing I heard of it they were struggling to find funding. And a surf club complained that the perfect spot for it was at their favourite beaches. Another excellent idea that seems to have been swept under the rug. Makes you wonder where all these ideas go and how many possibly world changing concepts just ran out of money and were put aside.

Andrew

[Den]

The generator engine I was reffering to is not built for a car, it is basically a mini power plant for your house which runs on natural gas, its gets you off the grid and is supposed to generate electricity cheaper and cleaner than the power companies which run on coal. So basically you trade an electricity bill for a gas bill.

[Cawdor]

We are the windiest city on the planet

Not quite correct Brett, Perth is the third windiest capital city in the world

[Poncho]

My mistake

Still a feasible option though.

Den I love the term watt watcher - haven't heard it before. I've become the same and noticed a drop in my power bill even with the increase cost per unit.

[Den]

watt watcher! Brett I just made it up because thats what Ive been doing for a while now.

I never used to care how much a peice of equipement used. Usually the cheaper the product the more power hungry it is, also you must take care because manufacturers claims on wattage are not always correct, I heard one story recently of a 30K litre water pump claimed to be 150watt by the manufacturer and when it was tested turned out it was actually sucking 300watts! Anyway running 5 large tanks with one 150watt water pump and one 300watt heater in a sump setup, lots of savings there since the room is also double insulated. Anyway hope Im not dertailing Andrews thread.

[werdna]

Thats cool.
The idea is to try to be more energy efficient.
Any ideas and suggestions are great as far as I am concerned!

[scroogy1]

Hi Werdna

Do you have a cost on the led downlights. as i have lots of downlights i think i need to look at reducing my bills $900 every 2months and im shutting my fishroom down (half way there). Would like to hear how the panels go for you.

Cheers Jason

[werdna]

There are a few different ones available.
These are currently around $25ea but should be able to get them a lot cheaper with a 100+ buy. Both have 60 deg beams
last time I did it with this co they gave me I think around 20% off.
This one replaces the whole light assebly in the roof.

This one replaces the standard bulbs only, so is better if you have square or stainless fittings.

Neither are dimmable.
You can get dimmable for one that looks similar to the 2nd pic, but they are $10 more and are 45 deg beams

They are all 5w and available in cool white or warm white, I prefer cool white, but that shouldnt make a dif on multy buys if you want different.
Added advantage is that they run cold, so shouldnt burn your house down!
Apart from the price! the main problem with them is the newer switch mode power supplys cant start up if you have less than 4 connected because they draw so little power, so if you have 3 or less on one circuit you need to get a transformer based power supply, the old black ones. They are $12 ea I think. And you would need a sparky to connect them.

This one is 6w, 30deg angle, so more for concentrated lighting. $33 ea


I am going to keep looking tho if anyone has any other ideas.

Andrew

[Neakit]

I find it funny that you can buy a whole new gimble, globe and transformer for less than one of those globes.

[Kieran]

I also saw an article on a murdoch uni concept of connecting a weighted buoy to an underwater piston water pump. The waves would make the piston move up and down, which would pump water to shore, turn an electric generator, then some water would go through a RO filter and you would get free power and fresh water. But last thing I heard of it they were struggling to find funding. And a surf club complained that the perfect spot for it was at their favourite beaches. Another excellent idea that seems to have been swept under the rug. Makes you wonder where all these ideas go and how many possibly world changing concepts just ran out of money and were put aside.

I believe you're talking about the CETO project. There were two units tested for a couple of years in 2004-ish through H to I believe 2006 in Freo. Following the success of that trial, a major implementation (about nine of them) is proposed off Rous Head. haven't heard anything since, but it looked really promising.

If you're interested in that kind of thing, there are quite a few wave hydro designs being tested at the European Marine Energy Centre.

This one is 6w, 30deg angle, so more for concentrated lighting. $33 ea

I believe I've seen these in action at the Mandurah sustainable display home. There are a few of these around so have a look it's free!
The worst part about downlights (apart from the massive power usage) is that to keep them cool you need a hole in your insulation directly above them. So not only do you have inefficient lights that look pretty but are hard to read with, you also have all your warm or cool air escaping into your roof cavity

I've always looked at overflow / sump systems and wondered why we don't put a microhydro system near the bottom of the pump->sump pipe? It would reduce flow and thereby water noise when it hits the sump, and recover a bit of energy to run the overall system. Plus it's on 24/7.

EDIT: Traditional downlight

[werdna]

I find it funny that you can buy a whole new gimble, globe and transformer for less than one of those globes.

You say funny, I say frustrating! It is irritating how expensive they are when the normal ones are $2 and these are the same but with a resistor and led and are over 10x the price.
I reckon I could probably build one for $15 that has the same output for similar wattage, just not as good looking!
I can understand $10ea, but someone is making good money out me these.

[Kieran]

It's more than likely a case of small LED batches vs huge Traditional batches. Anything that's in any way different from the norm is expensive to start off. Just look at the solar panel prices from 10 years ago vs today.

It might be cheaper to buy the new unit than upgrade to an LED part, but with a 100,000 hour runtime you will regain the cost, not to mention you won't be pumping nearly as much heat into areas you're trying to keep cool, lessening the load on your home cooling systems.

[werdna]

L/v downlight range from 20 - 50w (generally 20 or 36). Mine are all 20, so I would save 15w per hour.
LED supposed life 100,000 hrs
downlight ~2500 hrs
$25 ea vs $2 ea
Therefore 1 LED lasts for 40 halogens, IN THEORY!
So you have a $55 saving there.
Plus power usage savings (estimating 2 hrs use per day on average)
15w x 2 hrs x 365 days /1000 (convert to kw) x .16 c/unit = $1.75 per year
100,000 / (2 x 365) = 136 years of life! IN THEORY
136 x $1.75 per year = $238 + $55 = $293 saved by purchasing LED lights... IN THEORY
And less chance of your house burning down!

I just dont see how they came up with the 100,000 hr life, and its not a warranty, just an estimation, its not like they have an hour meter attached to them!

[Neakit]

one power surge and then all the leds are caput

[werdna]

Thats what insurance is for.
And anyway, the leds are not connected to mains, they are isolated thru the 12v power supply, so 1 power surge and the power supply's are caput.
But seen as you will have craploads of power supplys left over when you changed over to leds as 1 power supply will now run 4+ lights, you will save more money that if you still had the standard light.

The issue I see is that you change them all over, and 2 years later the missus wants a new house, so the new owner gets the benefit, and you get lumped with having to change them all again!

[nick05]

I thought that would of been more of an issue with the solar panels rather than the lights? lol

[werdna]

Its an issue with everything!

[werdna]

Looky... I have turned GREEN!

Inverter

Panels


I have set the inverter to cost at 16c/kwh, so I can tell exactly how long till it pays itself off.
I was pretty impressed tho, when they were finished the sun was at about 30deg west of the panels (you can see the shadow in the third photo) and they were still producing 1.5kw, so it will be interesting to see what i produces at peak time.

They also were saying that on a day that there are clouds around, when the panels are getting full sun light they produce heaps more power due to light reflection off the clouds. Never thought about that.
Ofcourse that is offset real quick when the clouds move infront of the sun!

And Den, they are working on the wind power setups, about 1-2 years away still. Trying to find good, reliable, quiet generators are slowing them down.
But apparently alot of people in coastal areas like us rocko's have been asking alot.

Andrew

[Mike]

The Net Feed in tarrif is going to 47c per unit (1KW) in July. That is fed out to the grid mind you. I have a 1.5kw system and through summer I averaged 11kw per day. Now its around 7kw. I am in Port Kennedy, so not too far away from you.
When there is cloud around they tend to have a higher peak wattage reading, but this is only for a short time, like a spike. My top is 2011w and the system is only suppose to do 1530w. It doesnt really boost output too much.
A tip for getting the most power out to the grid: Run the dishwasher, pool or spa pumps, washing machine and dryer, basically all your high power stuff at night where possible.

As for LED's, I have 2 in at the moment 5w Cool white CREE LED's. From Jaycar. $60 a pop but one of the best availiable. Make sure they are CREE modules and not some of the junk coming out of China. As far as light output goes, I would like them to be a bit brighter, but they arent too bad for where they are. I tried the 3w and they were terrible. Some transformers dont like running LED lights too so be careful what your plugging em into. I have Osram Redback transformers, Red in colour. I had a rouge one in the roof that wasnt a Redback and I didnt know about it, it went bang.

I am in the process of trying to figure out some LED lights for my tank too. As well as just cutting down on general power usage.

Hope this helps, and Good luck
Mike