Brett

Not been on this forum for a while, then I read this story and it makes you want to cry. Partly for Melee who is clearly extremely frustrated, and for the three tanks full of fish.

 

I am not sure what the problem is, it could be a number of things, and before spending a lot more money on set ups and fish I think it would be wise to take some steps to find out the cause.

 

Initially the fish became ill with white marks on the body, which could be ammonia but also a host of infectious conditions, not just white spot.

A necropsy examination by a qualified person might have provided the answer and it might still be worth doing, or a gill biopsy.

I know these thinks are expensive, but what has the cost of your tanks been to date and the added anguish.

 

Forums can be good places for advice, and I am sure you have asked everywhere, but for these difficult issues I think the best option is to document a time line with as much information as possible and then take it to the most experienced person you know and work with that one person to eliminate as many possibilities as you can and then test for the rest.

 

Common things occur commonly, which is why we bang on about ammonia, we see it so often.

However the rare things do happen, and all experienced fish keepers know of episodes of toxic ornaments, accidental poisonings, miscalculation of medications, flea bombs, errant cleaning ladies that have resulted in wipe out of tanks. These things do happen, but three times in a row is starting to look like a pattern.

 

I will make some general comments

Quaranteen, Quaranteen, Quaranteen

Add fish slowly and wait, then wait some more and then a little more, 3 months between new additions would be my prefered period

Discus are not the fish for a troublesome tank that is only 6 weeks old

Cycling your tank with disease ridden live bearers is not my prefered option. It is a six foot tank so you can put in a small number of the fish you want and let them cycle the tank

 

Good luck

I hope you find the answers

 

Cheers

Brett

I am not sure how much organic material the Richgrow product has in it, I would suspect not much.

As a clay source it is probably satisfactory, though I have never used it.

You have probably seen this http://www.aquariuml...-Generating-Sub and I think it is a good starting point. You could probably substitute your Richgrow mixed with gravel/sand for the playsand. It is just an alternative source of clay.

Using high organic loads in tanks is a potential disaster, you would be replacing the blood and bone in the mix with peat. It is the quantities that are the problem as excess organics will result in a stinking mess. Again, I have never used coir peat, but I suspect that is way too much. It is easy to add fertiliser at a later point if there are insufficient macronutrients, but if you start with too much it is a disaster. Less is more

This last point is purely cosmetic, but mixing sand with gravel for the top layer makes no sense to me. If you like the look of sand use sand, if you prefer gravel then use gravel.

 

Cheers

Brett

 

You go out and dig up your own soil Brett?

Yes, and I tend to reuse it over and over again. Originally it came from Gosnells, not far from the Canning river where the soil is quite heavy loam/clay

 

Why do you say to think clay instead of dirt?

Well if you live in Joondalup, then your "dirt" will be almost all sand with a little organic matter. It will not have the nutrient (macro and micro) holding capacity of clay. It would be like mixing your organics with aquarium gravel. The clay tends to hold the nutrients in the substrate and out of the water column and provides a source of micronutrients. I tend to rely on the substrate to provide the micronutrients and then add macros via fertiliser spikes or balls pushed into the substrate. Mineralisation works, its just too time consuming for me and it exhausts quickly. It is really just providing macro nutrients, fertiliser spikes are easier and cheap.

 

you could buy laterite

Laterite is just iron rich clay, but all clays have plenty of iron ... just add some clay. I think 10% is a reasonable amount. I used to use much higher concentrations but I don't think that is necessary. Less is more sometimes

 

Cheers

 Brett

Well, having "dirted" my tanks for the last 20 years, I am happy to tell you that all the potting soils are useless.

Instead of thinking dirt, think clay, and as you would be aware there are no potting soils based on clay sold in Perth (when I last looked)

Most of Perth is built on the Swan Coastal Plain, where the soil is too sandy.

Look for clay based soil, either on the flood plains or the hills. Avoid soil that might be contaminated with chemicals, such as around industrial areas or home gardens.

 

Cheers

Brett

Just came across this post, glad they are improving.

By bloat, I presume you mean the fish are becoming distended in the abdomen, as it gets more severe their eyes start to bulge.

It is a form of multiorgan failure which results in fluid building up in the abdominal cavity, the end result of numerous conditions but most usually septiceamia. They may recover but tend to be permanently weakened by the illness. I doubt any treatment you can give at home would help.

Although bristlenose tend to be very hardy I have found them problematic in some of my tanks, but not others.

I have no hard evidence and have not really tested it to any extent, but my suspicion is they do less well in soil based tanks.

Many of my bristlenose in these tanks get fin rot initially, almost always on the lower aspect of the tail and pectorals and then go on to die or develop bloat. My hypothesis is that high levels of organics build up on the substrate (I rarely if even gravel vac these planted tanks) and this environment favors bacteria build up. Minor fin damage allows bacteria to get a foot hold.

Could just be coincidence

 

Cheers

Brett

I think 2Toned recipe is a good starting point, I would leave out the peat.

 

This old thread was the last one I set up with DIY http://www.perthcich...showtopic=43175

 

Unfortunately the links to all the pictures seem to have been lost, probably when they upgraded the site.

Over the years I have tended to reduce the amount of clay I use and also decreased the organics (peat, worm casting, blood and bone, etc) with little difference in the outcome and much less mess. However , most of my tanks have been low tech.

 

Cheers

Brett

As you can see from the Aquariumlife thread there has been a lot of discussion about 2-Toned DIY substrate.

I have used DIY substrates for years, they work perfectly well.

The "co2 generation" is a nice idea, but I am not sure how effective it is. The beauty of this sunstrate is that it is simple and not as messy as some.

 

Cheers

Brett

Many of you will be aware of my long running battle with various forms of filamentous algae. My tank has been infested with at least three forms of filamentous algae for over twelve months. I have attempted multiple interventions, from changing photoperiod and lighting to numerous nutrient manipulations. All to no avail.




Finally I arrived at the point were I was going to start again, but decided to give a last, desperate chemical attack. I had read on the forums that some people had success with using Flourish Excel at twice the recommended dosage. I hasten to add that Excel’s manufacturers make no claim for algae control and you dose above the manufacturers recommendations at your own risk, as you will see.

As it is extraordinarily difficult to identify algae, we are left with descriptive names that can be misleading. I had at least three forms of algae that I will refer to as “fur”, “staghorn” and “thread”. Fur algae has many short strands that are very close together, like the fur or pelt of an animal. Staghorn algae form from a single point, which is often quite firmly fixed, and have multiple branches, like a weeping tree. These form clumps of algae between leaves. Thread algae forms long threads, up to 30cm in length. When the tank was at its worst all these types were mixed in together.

Prior to treating the tank I removed as much algae that would easily come away and did a couple of large water changes. Plants were thinned as many were badly damaged. Extra current in the form of a power head was added.

Excel (polycycloglutaracetal) was added at twice the recommended rate. This totalled 55mls in my 220 l tank. I added it all at once, straight to the tank allowing the circulation from the power head and canister filters to spread it about.

After a week the effects were becoming obvious, nearly all of the “fur” algae had become white in colour and appeared dead, it was also starting to break away from the leaves of plants. There had been practically no regrowth of any types of algae, but the “staghorn “ algae had been less obviously affected. Equally as dramatic was the effect on the plants. All of the Vallis leaves had died and the Bolbitis fronds had developed black segments on them. Thes blackened areas eventually rotted away. Some of the Bacopa stems seemed to be rotting.




By the second week the impact had become more clear-cut. This was when I started to vacuum the dead algae up, which also resulted in some further water changes. By this time the Vallis had started to shoot again, although many of the older plants were completely killed. Bacopa was growing back quite strongly. Most of the “Fur” algae had been killed and was now coming away from the leaves. A lot of these leaves were badly damaged, but some, particularly on the Anubias seemed almost normal. This was surprising given the length of time they had been completely covered. The Excel seemed to have no affect on the Crypts, Swords, L. repens or R. rotundifolia or Ambulia. There is still viable clumps of “staghorn” algae, particularly deep within the A. nana plants. This area probably had reduced exposure, as the water flow within these “thickets” is probably poor. Most of the “staghorn” algae that was attached to the gravel seems to be gone. This may relate to more aggressive gravel vacuuming, but I suspect the algae was weakened first.


The pictures above show my Java fern "Windelov" before (left) and after (right) treatment.

Clearly this experiment demonstrates the algicidal effects of double strength Fourish Excel. The treatment is not without its problems, proving toxic to Vallis, and to a lesser extent Bolbitis and Bacopa. Its effect on different forms of algae is also variable, being particularly effective on the fur algae, which was almost completely destroyed, but less pronounced - though still effective- against the staghorn algae.

I would appreciate feedback and comments from other forum members, both on there interpretation of these results and experience with other algicides. To reduce bandwidth usage I will close this thread and open a second thread without any pictures in which to post comments.

Cheers
Brett