29 replies to this topic

[Anka]

Does anyone here think that a carbon tax is the right thing?

Will it help slow/stop global warming?

Will it save marine life?

Will it save the great barrier reef?

(when I say "save" I mean will it help to save - I understand that other factors are probably more important)

I've always been strongly opposed to carbon taxing, but after watching a few BBC docos on the great barrier reef I'm thinking that some drastic action is probably needed to save it. I don't want to live in a boring and dull world void of any animal and plant life :-(

Please post opinions.

I'm interested in Werdna's opinion, so Andrew please post

[Evil_Boof]

no... the carbon tax is a load of rubbish... based on shoddy predictions from ECONOMISTS.... scientists have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that carbon does not possess a risk... especially with the amount humans put out... that volcano in chile pumped out more carbon in its last eruption that humans combined could do in 1000 years.. tax the volcano? i think not.....

it wont make a difference to global warming.. because global warming doesnt exist.. the planet has actually finished warming and is starting to cool... has been "cooling" for the last 8 years.

what difference will $$$ do to save marine life?

the great barrier reef needs a whole heap of people to guard it, protect it,maintain it. $$$ from a tax wont do anything to help it.



last thing...

CARBON DIOXIDE IS PLANT FOOD YOU LABOR FOOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Riggers]

it wont make a difference to global warming.. because global warming doesnt exist.. the planet has actually finished warming and is starting to cool... has been "cooling" for the last 8 years.

Well said, over the timeline of hundreds of thousands of years the earth goes through continual warming and cooling, the gulf stream is highly affected by this. As the ice melts and the fresh water returns to the ocean it combines with the salty water of the gulf stream and slows it down... Thus creating a cooling affect rather than warming.... If only the media told us the whole story and not just the bits that help them forward there own agenda....

Cheers
Rigs

[werdna]

that volcano in chile pumped out more carbon in its last eruption that humans combined could do in 1000 years

On average, human activities put out in just three to five days the equivalent amount of carbon dioxide that volcanoes produce globally each year

LINKY
Can you please link me to the research proving your fact?

global warming doesnt exist.. the planet has actually finished warming and is starting to cool... has been "cooling" for the last 8 years.

Or the research proving this fact?

Study showing temperature changes over the last 133 months


Changes in rainfall from the average

CARBON DIOXIDE IS PLANT FOOD YOU LABOR FOOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The problem is that trees are being cut down just as fast as co2 emmissions are going up.

I dont like the carbon tax. Mainly because 75% is given back to people. If they trully introduced the carbon tax to reduce gas emissions, they would invest 100% into renewable energy research and implementation.
Labor picked the right person to represent their party, they needed someone with no balls.
IMO the carbon tax was just another tax that has been added/increased to try to help labor reach their goal of a budget surplus and will make absolutely no difference whatsoever to greenhouse emissions.
However, it is a start.

If you dont believe in climate change, you are a dumbass.

And why is my opinion so valuable?
There are other people on here that actually work in the field of climate change who's opinion is worth ALOT more than mine

[Kleinz]

 climate_change.jpg   45.17KB   54 downloads

[Evil_Boof]

i believe in climate change.. but i dont believe the hype the politicians put on it. i dont think their "science" is correct in the things they say.

[werdna]

because global warming doesnt exist..

i believe in climate change..

Global warming and climate change are the same thing.
Global warming makes polar caps melt, the fresh water causes an inversion layer in the sea water, this slows/stops thermohaline circulation, the North Atlantic Gyre is an excellent example.
The NAG is what is responsible for bringing warm water off the coast of Europe, that is why the UK average temp is higher than Canada's even though they are roughly the same lattitude.
So global warming causes colder temps in Europe, thats why it was changed to climate change. You cant tell people while they are in a cold snap that the reason is because the world is warming up. They think the scientists are making stuff up to keep getting grants.

[tranced]

If they trully introduced the carbon tax to reduce gas emissions, they would invest 100% into renewable energy research and implementation.

so true! when i realised this wasnt the goal of the tax it was facepalm moment. bureaucracy gone wrong. nice pic too kleinz, hahaha.

[Anka]

And why is my opinion so valuable?
There are other people on here that actually work in the field of climate change who's opinion is worth ALOT more than mine

I wanted an accountant's perspective

[werdna]

Its just another tax that you cant claim against that is relatively easy to calculate income but extremely diffficult to calculate expenses, and another attempt by labor to rob from the rich to give to the poor.
My opinion is biased though, I will be $4k/year worse off and have a strong opinion about the party introducing the tax...
I am also dubious of a tax that robs the rich and gives to the poor when alot of marginal electorates are known to believe that the rich should be taxed higher.
This same government started the nbn rollout in a majority of marginal electorates.

There have been a large number of other new or changed tax laws recently that only seems to increase government revenue, I cant see this being different:
stricter rules for present entitlement
means testing eto
means testing private health cover
backcharging rental losses from offsets and centrelink benefits (which can make someone who earnt nothing during the year have an adjusted taxable income)
removed low income tax offset on distributions to minors
not to mention RSPT, an unconstitutional, biased tax that takes more money from the west and gives to the east

the list goes on.

They also want to reduce company tax rate by 2% and justify by saying that will give company's the money to pay for an additional 3% super.
50% of employees in Australia are employed by small business and a significant proportion never pay corporate tax.

[Riggers]

If you dont believe in climate change, you are a dumbass.

Wow...... Really? ..sorry dude I really don't agree with that statement.. So if I dont believe in something you do, you resort to name calling.... Nice! .

I agree with the point, there is such a thing as global warming, I don't agree with the concept of "climate change" though... Media 'advertising'.....

[Evil_Boof]

what riggers said....................

[werdna]

Its not name calling, it is stating a fact
There is so much evidence proving that it exists you cant dispute it anymore.
You can say the climate is changing from natural reasons and argue wobble theory etc if you really want to stick your head in the sand, but you cant dispute the fact that it is changing.

You agree that the globe is warming up, or changing, but dont agree in climate change. The two are one and the same!
I dont care what you believe in, but if you tell me the world is flat, I will call you a dumbass. Why? Because we know the world is round.

Ignore the politics, I agree that politicians are full of it and honestly believe they are using it as an excuse to charge another tax. That doesnt make the science not real.
The problem with the internet is it allows people with only basic scientific understanding to write whatever they want, and allow other people to jump on their poorly based opinions and run with them.
If you want to make your own informed decision, look at it with an open frame of mind. Read as much material you can from all sources, not just the one you choose to believe in, then make an informed decision from all facts presented to you.
Its a good system, similar to prosecution and defence in the legal system.
I guarantee, for every research paper you find stating climate change is natural or non-existent, you will find 30 more, probably with accurate data modelling from the last 50 million years, showing that carbon levels are rising at a rate faster than ever before.

And Boof, first you say that you dont believe in global warming because of all this scientific evidence that obviously doesnt exist, then you say you do believe in climate change, now you agree with Riggers stating that global warming exists but climate change doesnt. I have no idea what your argument is based on, or what you believe in now!

[Evil_Boof]

i dont believe that global warming is actually happening because detailed records dont go back far enough to know. its all based off climate models and computer programs.


i think riggers was referring to the "climate change" as the media puts it... thats what i dont believe in....


are you say.. you would be a dumbass to say weather patterns are not changing.. but as far as i know, it was caused by that el nino or whatever it is..

"climate change" and "global warming" i dont believe are the same thing.. as far as im concerned. science aside. ive lived in the same place for 25 years.. and over that 25 years. the temperature average has dropped. quite a bit... so how is the whole world getting hotter and colder at the same time???

[werdna]

ive lived in the same place for 25 years.. and over that 25 years. the temperature average has dropped. quite a bit... so how is the whole world getting hotter and colder at the same time???

As taken from HERE
Busselton Averages
1921-1950 min 10.2 / max 22.1
1931-1960 min 10.3 / max 22.2
1941-1970 min 10.7 / max 22.1
1951-1975 min 10.9 / max 22.1
1961-1975 min 11.2 / max 22.1
1998-2010 min 11.2 / max 22.7
1998-2011 min 11.3 / max 22.8
Apr 2011 - Mar 2012 min 11.7 / max 23.7

Unfortunately there is a window between 1975 and 1998 where averages were not taken.
But looks to me the average temperature in Busselton has been increasing since 1921.

The el niño event happens on average once every 5 years, and affects mainly the eastern states.

[Riggers]

If you want to make your own informed decision, look at it with an open frame of mind. Read as much material you can from all sources, not just the one you choose to believe in, then make an informed decision from all facts presented to you.
Its a good system, similar to prosecution and defence in the legal system.

Exactly what I have done mate I make informed decisions based of the facts that I have researched.. I'm not disputing any of the facts or figures you have pointed out, the point I was making is that if someone doesnt agree with your point of view, calling them a dumbass is not going to change that.. Narrow mindedness is trying to get people to agree to your point, without accepting that people have the right to have and voice there opinions without being called names.. You put forward an excellent point of view then wrecked it by using a statement like that.....



Climate change... A changing climate

Global warming...... Warming of the planet

Don't sound the same to me..

[Bowdy]

I agree with the point, there is such a thing as global warming, I don't agree with the concept of "climate change" though... Media 'advertising'.....

Well if there is a progressive climb in global temp " global warming " wouldnt that mean the climate is changing " climate change "

[Evil_Boof]

mmm.. im going of personla experience.. not averages

in the last 10 years alone.. we went from constant 40+ degree days for ages(during summer) and in the last 2 years. it hasnt tipped 40+ more times than i can count on one hand.

and the winters used to be suvere down here, and now they are barely anything more a mild blow...

[werdna]

Climate: The weather conditions prevailing in an area in general or over a long period.
Change: Make or become different

Looks to me like it would cover an area... (such as the globe), changing in temperature (warming).

Hmmm

I am extremely sorry if I offended anyone by calling them a dumbass, it is a phrase I use often, generally with a joking tone, that unfortunately is difficult to convey in text.

[Riggers]

Your assuming that change means warming..It just means that it's changing.. Could mean cooling... The media has every one thinking of climate change as global warming...

No offence taken mate