88 replies to this topic

[Buccal]

Your last paragraph is very wise and so true.
New findings for improvements = beneficial progress.

[waruna]

 

 

I've acknowledged the fact the fact that the study on tilapia are based on farm fish that are not intended to live long. Just grow fast so they can be eaten. There are no studies on the long term affect in ornamental fish. 

 

You are missing the point.. The link to the study that i provided in my last post used a diet average at best, about 45% starch! No Ornamental fish food manufacturer with a right mind would use such high levels, and not to mention the lower protein levels.  The point is still these fish showed considerable improvements when fed a diet with garlic, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out the benefits it would add when garlic is incorporated in a diet with superior ingredients such as NLS!

 

 

 

 

That study is just as useful as the one that is conducted on reef fish over long term which does prove it can cause legions on the organs.

Which study are you referring to?

 

 

 

 

Are you really suggesting that the floating issue is purely due to the pellet size?

 

Yes it is.. I talk to the formulator Pablo at least  once a week, i'm well aware what's going on with the food. In fact i'm just getting ready to spend two weeks with him at his farm in the next two months. The issue with the stock in AUS is due to the size of the pellets.

 

 

 

Regardless who he is, this has been an ongoing discussion. A lot of the research was done years ago so some fresh discussion may bring some new information.

 

Lol, i'd love to see some new information too, have you got any?

 

The fact is using garlic in Ornamental Marine  fish feeds has been documented for over 15 years now. Scientists are still catching up to what Pablo said about 17 or so years ago.

The success stories are everywhere..!

 

 

 

Kieron Dodds, from Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine wrote an article on the Moorish Idol last year, titled; "Still Impossible After All These Years - Keeping Moorish Idol". He clearly admits that the main intent of his article was to discourage anyone from acquiring this species, as he feels this species has almost no chance in being kept alive in captivity beyond a very short duration. At one point he states "Pablo Tepoot is perhaps the single individual who has had the most success with this species" 

 

 

[Ronny]

 

You are missing the point.. The link to the study that i provided in my last post used a diet average at best, about 45% starch! No Ornamental fish food manufacturer with a right mind would use such high levels, and not to mention the lower protein levels.  The point is still these fish showed considerable improvements when fed a diet with garlic, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out the benefits it would add when garlic is incorporated in a diet with superior ingredients such as NLS!

 

No, you are missing the point, all those studies are on farm fish that are not intended to live longer than a few months.

No long term affects are studied as the fish are not long term.

 

 

Which study are you referring to?

 

I'm reffering to the study you linked.  It is irrelevant to ornamental fish that live longer lives in captivity.

 

 

 

Yes it is.. I talk to the formulator Pablo at least  once a week, i'm well aware what's going on with the food. In fact i'm just getting ready to spend two weeks with him at his farm in the next two months. The issue with the stock in AUS is due to the size of the pellets.

 

I'm not even going to comment on that. What you have stated says more than intended.

 

Lol, i'd love to see some new information too, have you got any?

 

As would I, which is why I was asking you to back your theories with recent evidence. You asked Buccal to provde some, so I'm asking you too.

 

 

The fact is using garlic in Ornamental Marine  fish feeds has been documented for over 15 years now. Scientists are still catching up to what Pablo said about 17 or so years ago.

The success stories are everywhere..!

 

It has been documented but has it ever been scientifically proven? No.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This was a good thread before with good discussion.

As a result I will try to discuss this else where and hope you don't ruin that too.

 

Personally, I am for the use of garlic to a degree. But would like to learn more about the use of garlic as a supplement in fish diets.  Not who sells what and who is better than the other.

Edited by Ronny, 05 September 2013 - 11:03 AM.

[waruna]

 

 

That study is just as useful as the one that is conducted on reef fish over long term which does prove it can cause legions on the organs.

 

It's obvious from your reply that you do not have anything valuable to add to this topic! You keep pointing to a so called study that used purified allacin to a feed trial. These two don't relate since NO ornamental  fish food manufacturer is adding (400ug/kg) purified allacin to their fish feed. 

 

I had to personally ask the Mods to not delete this thread, as i'd like members on this forum to read the entire thread and make up their own minds.  

[Ronny]

Those studies are all we can go off and since the amounts of allicin used in foods that do have use it are not available to the public, there is no way to judge how much is being used. 

 

All I know is NLS Thera A WREAKS of garlic.

 

I'm glad you did, that way people can see what rubbish you have contributed to what was a good thread .

[waruna]

It wasn't my rubbish the Moderators were concerned about.. 

 

If you don't like what i write, either ignore it or start your own forum!

[Ronny]

Yea, apparently if you're not a sponsor you can't say anything to upset ones that are cos they go and cry to the CMs.
Regardless if they're the ones in the wrong and making personal attacks which is a rule only sponsors can break.

No one mentioned any products until you started dribbling on and it was fine before then.

[Kleinz]

[waruna]

Good Morning Ronny,

 

Did you know The department of fisheries & Aquatic sciences of University of Florida which specialize in dietary habits and nutritional disorders of fish, uses New Life Spectrum Exclusively as a control diet in their studies, as well as for newly arrived fish that are placed into quarantine?

[Ronny]

No I didn't.

Did you know there are a number of Aquariums in Australia and world wide that USED to use NLS but have recently switched over to New Era

Again, unless you are going to contribute to the garlic discussion, go push your product else where.


Buccal, I have been informed that New Era use Beta Glucans in place of garlic as an immune stimulant.
Do you have any information on this one could look into to do a comparisson?

Edited by Ronny, 06 September 2013 - 08:55 AM.

[Cam85]

I'm putting my 2 cents in. I have used both new era and nls and i have to say my fish never touched the new era food yet gobbled up the nls so i know what I'm going to keep using

[Westie]

my fish love both

[Buccal]

Most of my fish turned their nose up at New Era for a while to start.
Now they smash it.
Sorry Ronny, I've been told by mods I can't discus anything about comparisons of the foods as I'm not a sponsor.
It's not in the pcs interest to have a sponsor over run.

[Buccal]

Ok, I thought this is not comparing, just some info.


The Aegis food contains natural immune response stimulants called 1-3 Beta Glucans and Bioflavanoids. These are naturally occurring in many reefs and Aegis was primarily designed for marines because they were more prone to lateral line disease and whitespot etc.


This is the only aquarium food that uses human grade raw ingredients apart from the fish meal which is not classified as human grade because we (humans) don’t eat North Atlantic Blue whiting. It’s a white flesh fish that tastes bland! Other than that, the Mussel, Shrimp, Squid and sea weed are all human grade. Also there are no terrestrial cellulose in the diets which is not digested by most of the fish species. We use 5 different algae and sea weed. So you won’t find any soya bean or any isolates used in our products to replicate the necessary vegetable matter. As you know the other products use these and are modified so that the fish can digest them. Not necessarily providing full benifit. 

The only starch used in the New Era product is to bind the pellet. It’s a chemically modified starch that binds the pellet (like a shiny skin on the pellet) during the low temp extrusion (about 52 degrees). This is expelled from the fish and then used by the bacteria in the filters as a source of carbohydrates.

The flake food is also a unique formulation where unlike normal flake food where the water soluble vitamins leach into the water as the flake hits the water. Because of the low temperature production, the vitamins and minerals are encapsulated in an emulsion of water and lipid droplets. So the water soluble vitamins encapsulated in a lipid which is then encapsulated in water and so on, much like a Russian doll. So when the flake hits the water the vitamin and mineral profile is intact and full benefit gained by the fish eating the flake. THere are no artificial colors either. There are video footage on YouTube on how the New Era flake is made. 

There are also frozen food enrichments which is an emulsion that you use with the frozen foods. This helps reduce the oxidation and introduces the vitamins and minerals that are in the New-Era foods. Therefore transition from frozen to pellet/flake foods is quite easy.

There are plenty of video footage of marine and fresh water fish eating the food on a Facebook page (under Addicted2Fish). You will also see testimonials from shop keepers who are now using New-Era for their own stock.

[Ronny]

Committee, please don't see this as slandering a sponsor. I'm simply asking for answers where Waruna appears to have made false statements in regards to a product.

Waruna, how do you explain this after stating numerous times that the 'new' NLS pellets float purely due to the size...

From the NLS Vice President.

"To Our Customers,

As you know, New Life International has the highest commitment to quality, and is always
improving our New Life Spectrum brand of fish food.
We have recently upgraded our facilities and food production processes to let us reduce fillers and starch from New Life Spectrum in favor of enhanced ingredients such as Ulva Seaweed, Chlorella Algae, Alfalfa, Mollusks etc.
As a result, upcoming jars of New Life Spectrum will be listing these new ingredients.
More significantly, fillers such as starch (which we have reduced in favor of nutritionally active ingredients) add weight to the product. This means our new pellets are lighter than previous batches. As a result, we are adjusting the stated weights on our standard packaging sizes to reflect this. This change does not affect the volume, number of pellets or servings per package. In fact, each serving delivers more nutrition to the fish than previously.
We won't be changing UPC numbers, as this is an across-the-board revision, and doesn't represent a change in our line-up.
Customers can expect to see these changes first in our highest selling SKUs and rolled out to
others over the next few months. For the next year, a non-intrusive notation on the package near the weight will say "new higher concentration formula" for those customers who observe weights. Otherwise, the packaging will be visually the same and does not represent a promoted or
highlighted new "feature on the jars.
We will be sending our revised product lists with the revised weights shortly.
While we recognize that change in a product can be a challenge for distributors, we hope that our customers realize that this commitment to keeping New Life Spectrum at the forefront of quality fish nutrition benefits our resellers and final consumers alike.
Sincerely,
Ian M. Tepoot
Vice President
New Life International, Inc. ian@nlsfishfood.com
(305) 245-1906 www.nlsfishfood.com"


According to this, the pellets float due to a change in formula which is not what you said Waruna.


Buccal, I've not once asked you or anyone for a comparison in any foods.

Simply a discussion on ingredients

Edited by Ronny, 06 September 2013 - 09:36 PM.

[Buccal]

For the same reason you had no idea I was the New Era rep,, I'm not one to make trouble or bath in the chaos.
I to was wanting to discuss with a worthy person and correlate about dietary intakes,,, I don't claim to know all,,, just my personal findings,,,, and the rest i have to choose what to and not to believe through discussing and literature,,, hence the point of all this.

It is only natural the leading brands will be relevant to this what was a good discussion till the joy was killed.

[RD.]

While I may not agree with Waruna's sometimes overzealous approach to these kinds of threads, I do happen to agree with what he stated with regards to Buccal starting a discussion that CLEARLY targeted an ingredient used by one of his main competitors.

 

Fair is fair, I have never hidden who I am - and on that note I no longer have a dog in this fight, as I no longer have any type of vested interest in any fish food.

 

Having said that, the scientist who was linked to originally in this thread doesn't have the common sense that god gave a goat.

His studies prove absolutely nothing, other than something that has been well known in aquaculture circles for decades - lipids derived from terrestrial plant matter can cause issues in some species of fish when excessive amounts are fed to the fish.

 

Ditto to every other idiot on the planet who has written about this subject over the years. If you are really interested in garlic and the dietary supplementation of fish please read the folowing discussion, started by myself on another forum.

 

http://www.monsterfi...tion-of-Disease

 

 

Damn near every raw ingredient used in fish food, including garlic, can be considered a natural immune response stimulant in some form or another. 

[Ronny]

Thanks RD.
Had Watuna contributed something useful like some new/relevant information on the use of garlic on ornamental fish, the thread would probably be more civil and useful.

I wasn't aware that Buccal is the New Era rep and that didn't change my opinion in any way.
If you look at the start, I was actually trying to find pros for the use of garlic. I can accept the fact that it does have it's benefits in a fish' diet but at the same time, I would like to know why.
I'm not one to just take information without asking the question 'why?'

I also stated that garlic is harmful in excessive amounts as is everything and I was trying to find out how much is too much and how much is in the foods that use it as an ingredient.

When you say 'every other idiot who was written about this subject' do you mean anyone who has started a discussion and asked questions?
I entered this discussion hoping to find more information on the topic like the thread you posted.
But from this tread all I have found is NLS is good, but the person pushing it is an insecure jerk and probably insecure about his product for good reason.

[jeffblack]

So I am none the wiser after  reading all of this on what food to buy my fish, and you know what's worse, in all the palaver I burnt my breakfast.

[Ronny]

Jeffblack, this wasn't so much aimed at what food you should buy.
This is a subject that has been discussed many times based on old information that is somewhat irrelevant.
There are people that are for the use of garlic and some against it.
I simply wanted to know why/how people form these opinions and if it's anything more than, 'my mate said it's good and he's bred a fish'.

Sorry bout your breakfast.