24 replies to this topic

[Haydn]

i have just setup up my fish pond 4 days ago(4000lts~)
i have had the filter runing in another pond for aproximatly 3 months and i have a pump etc.. i had the water tested and i ahve put every chemical that you are suppose to.

the fish seem to loose there balance~ and thy sit at the bottom of the water an we hold them to keep em up right it doesnt help. please someone got any ideas.

ps. mainly the smaller ones have died

[Arcturus]

Whats the temp in there?

[Haydn]

its usually between 20-23 all day 20 at night an morning and 23~ during the day.

[teck]

mayb they are just sitting on the bottom to keep cool coz if u had lily in the pond they would normally hide under them...., do the fish look fine? try addind some bacteria in it and c how it goes but have u lost any fish?

[Haydn]

well when i mean there at the bottom i mean they are upside down heavily breeding we have lost 10 small ones like 5-10cms and lost 3 big ones 20cm~.

[teck]

geez i wouldnt know but if it happend all of a sudden could it b contamination like pesticide or something got into ur new pond.... did u put them back into ur other pond?

[Mr_docfish]

Are they going slimey or bleeding at the base of the fins (easier to see in the white koi) also check the bellies for bleeding.

Have you checked the water qualities today? like Ammonia, Nitrite and pH.

In the mean time if you don't know what it is, add about 4kg of salt (for 4000 litres), this will help if there is any nitrite or similar toxin in the water (as well as any protozoan parasites).

I need to know more of what happened before the fish went down, like where the fish came from, how they were transported, how many fish in total (how many small and how many large) and what products have been used in the last 48 hours, before the fish showed symptoms, any detail you can come up with might help.

[Haydn]

The fish were in the pond for 20hrs atleast before this started.
small fish : 20 bought from a fish store the day before it happened.
large fish: 30~ larger fish (4 of them were bought with the small onees).
they are probaly slimy cuase we put in a product that the fish shop gave them for anti-stress and puts a slime coat on them.
the fish came from my pond at my old house that they have been living in for atleast 2 years.
from this fish shop in plastic bags like usuall.
and ones from old house were in a foam box for mabye 30 mins while we caught them due to we live inside 1k from our old house.
well the day the problems happened we had the water checked and the guy at the fish shop said the water should be perfect an he said there was a little bit of ph but it should be a problem.
before they showed symptons we put in we just de-chlorinated the water.

[Cicolid]

What is the size of the pond, especially the depth ?

I would install an Air Pump as many air stones as you possibly can to see if that helps.

Col

[Haydn]

well i have like a small pump an a massave one and i also have the filter running they are all splashing making alot of air i suppose.?

[SynoAngel]

From my experience with ponds, any of the following could be your problem.

1. pH
2. Ammonia is pushing the pH to be more acidic
3. Chlorine

If i were you, I would list the product name and brand that you used and in what quantity. Is your pond concrete and did you seal it so no lime could seep in?

Daniel

[Haydn]

we have a plastic liner an like i said we took a water sample to a fish shop an they tested those 3 things and they were fine they said.

[Haydn]

we have noticed an oil like substance on top of the water we are outting paper towls on top an bringing them up to soak up the oil got any idea if thats the problem?

[Arcturus]

Anymore casualties this morning?

If the water params are all ok, the higher temp is the only thing that I could think off that would be doing this. 23 C is pushing the upper temp limits for koi/goldfish.

Maybe run the hose for a minute then put it in the pond. And/or throw some ice in there - not bagged ice tho cos of the chemicals in it.

Also try get some more oxygen in the pond....higher temps = lower oxygen.

Good luck

[Fish Antics]

A couple of things that I stuck out for me:

i have just setup up my fish pond 4 days ago.

The fish were in the pond for 20hrs atleast before this started - before they showed symptons we put in we just de-chlorinated the water.

20 bought from a fish store the day before it happened.
large fish: 30~ larger fish (4 of them were bought with the small onees).

If your pond is only 4 days old and you have now put 50 large to small Koi into it I think that your filtration system may not be able to handle such a load. The filter itself is only one part of the system. Ponds need to be stocked slowly just as a tank to enable the bacteria to colonise the rocks, sides of the pond and the the increased load of all the new fish the filter didnt have before. If the filter is the problem I would expect to see a high Ammonia spike which would also give the symptoms on the fish you describe.
You say you only dechlorinated the water after the fish were already in, or thats how i read it.. I assume this is a misprint and you ment to say you put dechlorinater in 20 hours before the fish..if not this could be a problem.

I would suggest lots of oxygen, large and regular water changes and use dechlorinater, if you cant mix it in large buckets before adding to the pond at least as you are putting the water into the pond.

HTH

Tony

[Mr_docfish]

If the koi are lacking oxygen, they would be at the surface gasping, the pointers I can see from your information are:
on the bottom
lethargic
symptoms showed within 24 hours of introduction (various sources)
approx 50 small to medium fish in 4000 litres
Plastic lined pond

There are a few possibilities;
Ammonia, low pH, transport stress/change of environment stress, toxin.

Even though the water test was good to start with, the conditions can change over night so get it tested again. The pH can dive quickly if the KH is low from your water source and the plastic lined pond offers no buffering, like an unsealed concrete pond, unless there is some sort of ornament in the pond that can dissolve and buffer the pH. That number of koi, even in 4000 litres can produce a fair amount of ammonia, though not normally enough to produce those symptoms so quickly, unless the true volume is less than what you believe.
The koi that came from you old pond may have been damaged from low pH or ammonia burns in the esky during their travel, even though it was only a short trip, 30 minutes in an esky can still cause damage to them very quickly if they have not been purged before hand (the fish excrete a lot when they are stressed).
The fact that the symptoms occurred within 24 hours, you can disclude any disease, this would normally take several days.
Add salt to the pond (1kg per 1000litres), but before you do, check the volume again, (though the koi don't mind a higher salt level for a short time).
Keep the aeration up as others have recommended, their oxygen demand might be higher during this period, if you can spray the water from the pump into the air, it will drop the temp and increase the oxygen at the same time.
The only thing we cannot disclude at this point is a toxin, from maybe the liner or other product that went into the pond. The only cure for this is a water change. Get a jar full of water and find a mystery snail and put it in, if it lives for more than 2 days, then there are no toxins. (this information would only be useful after the fact, but can still help pinpoint any cause if the problem continues later on)

Good luck
Oliver

[Haydn]

well atm i have put a shade cloth an 80% of the pond is shaded atm iam going to the fish shop straight in the morning hopefully it gets better an we can find problem due to we are setting up more ponds mabye a 3000ltr and 2000ltr.

[madasa]

I think Tony is right - gasping or not at the surface. Dont like to disagree with you doc but a 4 day old pond - that is one hell of a load plus temp is a tad high

[Mr_docfish]

I was told Haydn was in the shop today and there was an Ammonia level.

23C degrees is not high IMO as we tend to keep our koi (in a higher bioload - 1000+ fish in various sizes in 4500 litres of water) indoors in our shop and the temp can go up to 28C (the last few days is a good example, as the shop was closed and the aircons were off, the fish are doing fine and begging for food, check it out for yourself if you can in the next few days!)

Maybe Haydn can confirm this.

Oliver

[Mr_docfish]

Sorry but BTW, I forgot to say why I knew it was not oxygen starvation, there was one point that came up; the smallest fish were dying first.
The larger the fish (of the same spp) the higher the oxygen demand. The first question that I ask when people are loosing fish in a pond during warm weather is whether the larger or smaller fish are dying, Haydn already mentioned this, the smaller ones first.
The other symptom is the fish will always try to find the water with the most oxygen, at the surface and at the base of water falls and fountains.
If the fish are at the bottom of the pond, then they are too weak to get to the surface. If this was due to insufficient oxygen, then the fish will only have minutes left to live, and some will still dart around the pond once or twice, jumping every now and then in a last ditch attempt to get oxygen into their blood stream. You will see this happening to koi and other carp like fishes (loaches and barbs) when they have been travelling too long or too many fish have been packed in a bag with insufficient oxygen. If you ever get the chance to see someone unpack a shipment from overseas then you will see what I mean!...Mexican jumping beans!

Sorry for not mentioning this earlier, I was a bit hasty.

HTH
Oliver