91 replies to this topic

[tranced]

bear in mind, that nobody has actually called anyone a racist in this thread at all.

[ilikefish]

Firstly, I respect all races & religions. However, I disagree with certain groups of people who comes here and try to change Australia to suit just themselves.

Love it, or Leave it. - Says it all.

Edited by ilikefish, 25 January 2011 - 04:39 AM.

[Den]

I understand what you are saying Dave and I agree, but we must make a clear distinction between disagreeing with an ideaology and steriotyping a group of people.

Christopher Hitchens is pretty good at arguing against Islam ideology, he's arguably one of the best debaters in the world against Religion in general. I respect Chris because although he argues against Religion he remains a humanitarian, if you google "Christopher Hitchens islam" you will see alot of his great work.

Cheers
Den

[fourdapostle]

Den, I have stated that I am not speaking about anybody or any group in particular, but to EVERYONE who doesn't like our food our clothes our beaches (with ladies on them), the heat, our flag, or our way of life. I am absolutely all for those that want to come to Australia for a chance to have a life and live free, because that is what we are, in most respects (i know its also debatable).
However regardless of wheather people wear a burque or a crash helmet (as you know I ride a bike), they can be blue, red, black orange or indego for all i care, I dont really care as long as Australia this way of life doesent disapear. It has been said that I don't like change, now that is utter rubbish, I love change but change for the good of all and not a minority, those with the loudest voices. Because the law says its ok, doesnt make it right, its just those that have loud voices and are willing to push and push, we just have to learn to push a little harder and longer.
This country is the greatest country in the world, and I have been to many places including USA, Europe, Dubai, Sth Korea, China, Malaysia, Indonisia, Fiji, even to Sydney, thought I would throw that in, and nowhere is there a place like Australia, it is the Great Southland...My brother in-Law before he passed away came for a visit from USA, I will never forget what he said; 'Look around the world David, you see what is wrong with it, this is a great place (Aust we were in Hilliarys boat harbor at the time) you (we) are young enough country to learn from our mistakes and don't do likewies.
That is all I am saying, nothing more or less, those that don't like it, nik off.
I was told when I first came here complaining about the heat, after coming from the UK, if you don't like it why not swim back to the UK and take another pom under each arm, use the for bouyancy. That is just the way it was, did I go to the united nations, or the anti discrimination board to get some recognition or an apology and some money, no. Its just the way it was (dont' think the board was around in those days 70s)
Today you can't say BO, before you are classed as a racist or some other derogatory form of words. You are Homphobic, Islamaphobic, sheeee, I wonder what course they are going to send me on for that one.
In the USA if you see to homosexuals walking down the street kissing, (men or women), and you show your disgust in any form and they notice it, they put you in a class, homophobic class to brain wash you to accept them.
The worlds going bonkers, there is to much 'seen to be right' lingo.
It's about time the truth and how people feel is said, and I suppose I am saying it... Australia

[FishGal]

that doesnt give you any right to enforce your language or religion onto other people.

I agree - however it works both ways.

I will say this - for an example of how not to run your immigration policy - look towards England. England is a country where National Anthems aren't being played or Christmas trees erected [just a few examples] because of immigrants complaining.

I have NO issue with ANY person wanting to come to Australia and make it their home - however they must accept it as it is. Sure bring your culture, your heritage but don't try to impose them on anyone - if people wish to learn, they will ask, they will seek you out. Try to assimilate into the Australian culture. Yes we are a multicultural society now BUT we do still have distinct things that make us Australian and people wishing to live here should at least try to incorporate them into their lives.

Wanting the best for your country, wanting it's traditions and values to be upheld as much as possible by new citizens doesn't make you a racist, a bogan or a redneck - it makes you patriotic and I never thought that, that was a bad thing?

[scotty81]

I agree - however it works both ways.

I will say this - for an example of how not to run your immigration policy - look towards England. England is a country where National Anthems aren't being played or Christmas trees erected [just a few examples] because of immigrants complaining.

I have NO issue with ANY person wanting to come to Australia and make it their home - however they must accept it as it is. Sure bring your culture, your heritage but don't try to impose them on anyone - if people wish to learn, they will ask, they will seek you out. Try to assimilate into the Australian culture. Yes we are a multicultural society now BUT we do still have distinct things that make us Australian and people wishing to live here should at least try to incorporate them into their lives.

Wanting the best for your country, wanting it's traditions and values to be upheld as much as possible by new citizens doesn't make you a racist, a bogan or a redneck - it makes you patriotic and I never thought that, that was a bad thing?

Well Said

[tranced]

they put you in a class, homophobic class to brain wash you to accept them.

ohhh dear

[Donna]

I have an even better idea.

Let's create a race of tall, blonde haired, blue eyed Arians! (luckily I fit the bill, a little short perhaps) jks

I have been a bit concerned about the rise of "patriotism" for a number of years. I have made some observations but not judgements on this topic.

There is a growing number of twenty somethings who are white and often male. They sometimes bring with them largish females, who tend to be even louder than they are. Easily recognisable by their southern cross tattoos (many of them cannot point it out in the night sky) board shorts (often sporting the flag), tank tops, but usually no tops. Cars also have the Southern Cross and on Australia Day, flags may fly from them. Cars are often Holden, but can be Fords. Their only aspirations are to have the biggest, best, fastest, loudest, most dangerous, latest game platform, stupidest haircuts for their kids, martial arts lessons, beers, dirt vehicles, boats, speak loudly and congregate in numbers

I dread Australia Day. As werdna (loved your post by the way) pointed out, "what is it to be Australian? How do we define Australian? Where is the real Australia and who lives there? These are the questions that maybe we could be asking. There are songs like "True Blue" that we may identify with, but who is that really talking about? Is it representative of what is really going on here? Is it about our convict streak?

I remember asking a young African student where he was from....he looked at me like I was an idiot...."Adelaide" was his reply. I later found out that his mother had been raped, and his father killed. Mum lived in a refugee camp for four years before coming here, settled, married and had a family. I don't ask anymore....it just doesn't seem important.

I taught a young refugee girl from Afghanistan. She had fled with her family, and lived in a refugee camp in Pakistan of all countries! Within two years of her being here, she already spoke better English than some of the "bogan" children who had be born here! Their parents don't value education, or English, or so it would appear. She is now at medical school and hoping to graduate and serve humanity.

My young cousins, are Chinese/Singaporian, and my own family are Scots! When I see the way my cousins value being here and value the opportunities for education, I know, that they are happy to be here. They cherish their own background, and appreciate mine! (I was born here so I have a right to have a tattoo of "the cross" on my arse if I want).

These are not bleeding heart stories, they are real stories about real people.

Get out of your homes people!

Or dig in and fight the percieved enemy with your beer and your Southern Cross car stickers and flags. Meanwhile the migrants run past you with their business sense, desire for education, and their ability to pool their resources and work hard.

The best way to get people to assimilate is offer them kindness, offer them understanding, showing them our great country and what it has to offer! Especially education! It would be good to actually get some so called "Australians" to do the same.

Regards,

Donna

PS: I am not proud to be Australian because of what we think we are....but because of who we can become....

A funny link: Warning: some mild coarse language

http://www.davewarne...au/convict.html

edited to add link.

Edited by Donna, 26 January 2011 - 10:55 AM.

[Barf]

I reckon an Australian traditionally accepts people from all walks of life, their cultures, religions and their way of life and do not force our beliefs & ideologies upon the general population. Whether you are already here or on your way here if you cant accept your neighbour for who they are MOVE! (either around the corner or back to where you came from)

i have worked with many different nationalities a lot of which struggled with english, and the majority love this country for what it is, they can still pratice their traditions and have a freedom which in a lot of cases have been denied.

There will always be a minority that will give people the s#$ts no matter what nationality.

btw I like bacon, and I will go to the shops that sell it.

[Den]

I dread Australia Day. As werdna (loved your post by the way) pointed out, "what is it to be Australian? How do we define Australian?

Australia has two things that are great, a wealth of recources and freedom, if you think this Country has its own culture you are kidding yourself, the only culture made in Australia is what you find in a tub of local made yogurt.

If you are concerned about Muslims forcing their ideals on you ask yourself these questions;

1. How many Muslim Countries have military bases on Australian, USA and UK soil?
2. How many Australian, USA and UK military bases exist in Muslim Countries? I can answer that, heaps.
3. Which Countries are continuously invading and bombing other Countries to enforce their political systems and rule of law?

Our soldiers are over there armed to the teeth with the most modern weaponry forcing our ideals by violent force throughout the middle East so I have to laugh when I read posts worried about Muslims imposing their ideals on us, take a proper look, its the other way around!

Now any lady walking the streets alone at night anywhere in Australia, who do you think she is most worried about harming her? Muslim extremists? reality is that most Australians are being harmed by other Australians.

Cheers
Den

Edited by Den, 26 January 2011 - 08:38 PM.

[scottyhooton]

having just taken my family out to rocky foreshore , i dread the future of this country no matter what!!!! the youth of today just sik'ns me .... no respect

[Tarpon]

Australia has two things that are great, a wealth of recources and freedom, if you think this Country has its own culture you are kidding yourself, the only culture made in Australia is what you find in a tub of local made yogurt.

If you are concerned about Muslims forcing their ideals on you ask yourself these questions;

1. How many Muslim Countries have military bases on Australian, USA and UK soil?
2. How many Australian, USA and UK military bases exist in Muslim Countries? I can answer that, heaps.
3. Which Countries are continuously invading and bombing other Countries to enforce their political systems and rule of law?

Our soldiers are over there armed to the teeth with the most modern weaponry forcing our ideals by violent force throughout the middle East so I have to laugh when I read posts worried about Muslims imposing their ideals on us, take a proper look, its the other way around!

Now any lady walking the streets alone at night anywhere in Australia, who do you think she is most worried about harming her? Muslim extremists? reality is that most Australians are being harmed by other Australians.

Cheers
Den

Yes I never thought about it that way but so true

[gibbs]

Australia has two things that are great, a wealth of recources and freedom, if you think this Country has its own culture you are kidding yourself, the only culture made in Australia is what you find in a tub of local made yogurt.

If you are concerned about Muslims forcing their ideals on you ask yourself these questions;

1. How many Muslim Countries have military bases on Australian, USA and UK soil?
2. How many Australian, USA and UK military bases exist in Muslim Countries? I can answer that, heaps.
3. Which Countries are continuously invading and bombing other Countries to enforce their political systems and rule of law?

Our soldiers are over there armed to the teeth with the most modern weaponry forcing our ideals by violent force throughout the middle East so I have to laugh when I read posts worried about Muslims imposing their ideals on us, take a proper look, its the other way around!

Now any lady walking the streets alone at night anywhere in Australia, who do you think she is most worried about harming her? Muslim extremists? reality is that most Australians are being harmed by other Australians.

Cheers
Den

Well done Den

[fourdapostle]

Hey Den, now tell me if I am right here; were the USA, UK and Aust troops invited by the majority or did they invade? Were they invited to go and help sort out the mess, or did they invade?
Ok to make rash statements, I wonder what the world would be like if everybody just sat back and looked after there own countries and not their interests in other countries. I mean Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Hitler to name a few could possibly still be around. I don't suppose we would have a problem the weakest in these countries would just disapear. Maybe England should never have declared war with Germany, maybe they should have just let him do what he wanted, I wonder what the world would be like today?
For those to young to know the names mentioned, google them.
It may sound sarcastic, but think about it for a moment, because we may have a very tolerant way with other nationalities but do they with us in there countries.

[Donna]

Not just random Australians either Den. I have always said, that the truth is, you are more likely to be injured, abused or murdered by someone who lives or lived in your own home. Often as a result of poverty, and often not.

You see, Australians have some "real" social issues to address. instead of shaking in the corner worrying about Muslims.

Australia is a religious nation, we have a church, and it is called the Church of the Southern Cross. Our first most holy day is ANZAC day.....Gallipoli, the day God created Australia.
The second, Australia Day when all the Saints gather. Saint Alcohol, Saint Glutton, Saint Hoon, Saint Apathy and Saint "F**k Off we're full", Saint "if you don't like it...go home" (Also known as Saint T Shirt) and Saint Big Bada Boom.
The most important saint, is Saint Unaustralian, because he gets to say which "acts" are Australian and which aren't, who is Australian and who isn't, who looks Australian, and who doesn't.

As Australians we seem to define ourselves by what we aren't instead of facing what we are.

The word "Unaustralian" is of great interest to me. It seems to describe anyone who attempts to make some social comment, or makes suggestions that might mean that some changes will need to be made, or we could do better at fixing some of our domestic problems. Even more frightening, the most hated critic is the one who questions our involvement in various conflicts around the world. This is really, really Unaustralian.

For the media and twenty somethings who seem to like to coin it, they forget we are in a time of plenty, when the uneducated (I do not mean that in a bad way), and the unskilled have excellent prospects and can be in well paying jobs. It will be interesting to see what happens if this ever changes, and who actually "floats" to the top.

Some good points Den regarding world politics and the balance of power.

Regards,

Donna

Edited by Donna, 26 January 2011 - 09:29 PM.

[bigjohnnofish]

You take your helmet off when filling up with fuel because of the white trash in their clapped out commodores/falcons running off without paying.

sorry guys i have to laugh extremely loud and long at this dumb comment.....

since when do people wear helmets driving commodores and falcons......

i believe the real reason for helmets to be removed is for identification if you try to steal or hold up the service station.... cameras cant see inside helmets....

sorry werdna, i have never spoken or met you but my perception of you has just received.... -1

[Tarpon]

were the USA, UK and Aust troops invited by the majority or did they invade? Were they invited to go and help sort out the mess, or did they invade?

"Invited" by a small proportion of pro-west puppets. Iraq now a more dangerous place to live under American occupation than under Saddam Hussein.

Have you actually spoken to any Iraqi refugees? Well I have in the context of my employment, and almost all are totally opposed to the American invasion.

You know a lot of facts, please remind me how many Iraqi asylum seeker boats arrived in Australia when Saddam Hussein was in power. Now it appears to be almost 1 every 1-2 weeks

[Donna]

Well said Tarpon. No "real" Australian wants to hear that, because, our religion relies on the image of the "Digger".

The media constantly refers to Australian soldiers as "diggers". They are not diggers...they are often career soldiers, who were not called to arms and are there by choice.
Whoops, there I go, being Unaustralian.

No doubt Saint Unaustralian will strike me down

[bigjohnnofish]

the muslim way of invading a country is basically a trojon horse.... they will take us over from within... whether it be in a hundred years or five hundred years.....

they move into a country and breed like rabbits and soon before you know it there is more muslim people in the country than non-muslims.... then it becomes a muslim state.... using democracy against you by weight of numbers... by simply learning the system they will beat the system...

very simple and not much anyone can do about it....

[Den]

David if you want to see the most interesting and entertaining debate ever on Western policies on the Middle east then please watch this debate between Christopher Hitchens and George Galloway, you will see both sides of the arguement and its both informative and hilarious.

George Galloway makes the most interesting points, Sadam Hussein committed genocide, he used Chemical weapons on his own people and he murdered and torchured over 1 million people, and he did most of this in the 1980's while best friends with the USA and other Western countries!!! and those who protested against it in the UK and USA while it was actually happening in the 80s were called trouble makers by their governments!!!! then 20 odd years later the west uses those attrocities which it backed to help justify an invasion, its no wonder the muslims either distrust or hate us.

Heres the debate vid
http://video.google....14963382152969#

Donna Regarding Australian culture I started writing a little essay on it you might enjoy, sorry for the long post:

Australia where thuggery is so popular they turned it into a sport, AFL, a brutal clash between two gangs who use aggressive physical assertion against each other in order to dominate over and force a piece of air wrapped in pig skin through two poles in the apposing gangs territory. Cleverly the organisers managed to brain wash a nation into believing that winning physical dominance over another through coordinated aggression and violence is a worth while and skilful accomplishment, while really doing nothing other than gratifying peoples primordial senses by allowing the spectator to become part of a group attempting to assert physical dominance over another group. Its nothing other than a substite to tribal warfare, moulded and designed to allow people a chance to indulge themselves in primitive violence and aggression while complying to the laws of a modern society.

AFL is not alone, the Australian nation has many other glorified violent items on its list of worship which includes rugby, boxing and war. There is no need to wonder why we so commonly see senseless violence in Australian communities which is rare in other cultures, its the result when misguided individuals unleash a behaviour that our society puts on a pedestal in order to resolve matters that any intelligent person could avoid in the first place.


The Ogre does what ogres can,
Deeds quite impossible for Man,
But one prize is beyond his reach:
The Ogre cannot master speech.

About a subjugated plain,
Among it's desperate and slain,
The Ogre stalks with hands on hips,
While drivel gushes from his lips.

—W. H. Auden, British poet and essayist, August 1968, 1968

Cheers
Den

Edited by Den, 26 January 2011 - 09:53 PM.