12 replies to this topic

[smirq]

I'm setting up a new 4x2x2 and was hoping to set it up to get a better result on plant growth than I've had in the past.

After doing a bit of reading, I'm keen to give a DIY substrate a shot. Has anyone used Richgro Sand to Soil as part of a mix?

 

Still figuring out the overall mix, but at this stage I'm looking at -

• Bottom layer - 3 x Brunnings Easy Wetta 9L Coir Peat Brick
• Next layer - 2 x Richgro Garden Products 15kg Natural Sand To Soil
• Top Layer - 40kg of exisitng white play sand with around 10kg of gravel mixed in.

I'd be happy to get comments or advice from anyone who has experience with similar mixes. I'm not sure if more gravel would be needed to cap the mix, but I'd like to keep the top layer whisker friendly.

[dori]

Interesting setup u got there

 

I'm currently using mineralised potting mix with clay, capped with playsand. It works pretty good, but algae can be a pain if not controlled properly

[scarab]

my knowledge on DIY substrates is very limited so I cant help much.

 

I only wanted to suggest using less peat. I'm not too sure what is recommended, however my main concern is that large amount of organic matter under a layer of sand can cause anaerobic pockets to develop as the organic matter breaks down and start producing hydrogen sulphide.

[sydad]

I agree with Scarab. I consider that the inclusion of of coir "peat", and the highly organic Sand to Soil mix as a recipe for potential disaster.

 

Syd.

[Brett]

I am not sure how much organic material the Richgrow product has in it, I would suspect not much.

As a clay source it is probably satisfactory, though I have never used it.

You have probably seen this http://www.aquariuml...-Generating-Sub and I think it is a good starting point. You could probably substitute your Richgrow mixed with gravel/sand for the playsand. It is just an alternative source of clay.

Using high organic loads in tanks is a potential disaster, you would be replacing the blood and bone in the mix with peat. It is the quantities that are the problem as excess organics will result in a stinking mess. Again, I have never used coir peat, but I suspect that is way too much. It is easy to add fertiliser at a later point if there are insufficient macronutrients, but if you start with too much it is a disaster. Less is more

This last point is purely cosmetic, but mixing sand with gravel for the top layer makes no sense to me. If you like the look of sand use sand, if you prefer gravel then use gravel.

 

Cheers

Brett

[smirq]

Cheers Brett.

Sand to Soil is 80% Bentonite Clay according to the MSDS. The inclusion of the peat blocks was via http://www.qldaf.com...ubstrate-24510/

 

As far as I can tell, it's coconut fibre without added ferts (not like sphagnum). I understand it is beneficial to soil structure allowing root penetration, and is a good medium for Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC) to store and release nutrients. The side-effects are tannin release, water softening, reduced Ph, and floating up if not capped. Overall this mix should be less organic than using blood and bone etc. 

 

The gravel / playsand is mixed up from removing it out of an old tank. I prefer sand (aesthetically and for the barbell health / length of my catfish), but I had some gravel under it in planted areas previously. Doesn't look too bad, a few scattered specks on the surface, though I guess I could sift them out if I got bored.

 

I might start out with just the single brick of coir-peat and just 10kg of Sand to Soil. As you say, less is more. I can always cryo-inject more later if needed.

[Just Drive]

If the peat lowers the ph won't it decrease the cation exchange capacity as well? I think the Wikipedia article mentions something about the affects soil ph has on the CEC.

[smirq]

True. As Ph lowers, CEC reduces and AEC (Anion Exchange Capacity) increases. I'll be monitoring my Ph, which is normally around 7.4, and I'd like slightly reduced anyways. Brett's link got me to thinking about including some marble chips / oyster shells to keep the Ph in Balance (and provide CO2). 

[Just Drive]

another question: won't peat moss work better than choir peat?

[smirq]

Peat moss is higher in organics and nutrients with more potential to cause problems if I overdo it. Peat would be a better source of nutrients if done right, but my aim is to create a substrate with good nutrient storage, and allow dosing and fish poo to provide the nutrients.

 

 

Coir has proven to hold moisture well, wet more easily than peat, drain well, decompose more slowly and withstand compression better than peat. Plus coir dust does not have the small sticks and possible seeds that peat has. 

http://extension.ore...eat-moss-garden

 

Another consideration is the relative environmental impact of harvesting.

 

 

Peat bogs are one of the planet’s largest and perhaps best ecosystems at long term carbon sequestering. Strip mining them not only releases that carbon, but huge amounts of methane which is a high powered greenhouse gas. It does so at the destruction of a species rich environment that does not bounce back with species diversity in any real sense. And with the destruction of the ecosystem there is an issue of “acid” runoff entering local waterways and impacting the fisheries.

 

Coir is a by-product from coconut plantations producing food and oil, as well as an extra commodity that brings in income from locally harvested “wild” trees in many locations. The husks being used for coir or fiber help raise the income of some of the world’s poorest people without jeopardizing their food production. And while a lot of Coir comes from south Asia and Indo-Pacific countries it is also being exported from Mexico and Central America.

 

Modern Coir has very little salt issues, though when it first hit the market it certainly did. Since it is shipped via the ocean it has very low “carbon-points” due transportation and it would be interesting to see the energy input of that ocean freight, compared to the “carbon-points” of peat that is extracted using enormous diesel powered mining equipment and land based transportation.

 

http://www.gardencul...-peat-moss-1819

 

Mostly, I'm just more comfortable with the idea of "coconut husk" in my tank than I am of "decomposing moss from a bog".

Edited by smirq, 17 November 2013 - 01:10 PM.

[Brett]

 

The side-effects are tannin release, water softening, reduced Ph

Sounds interesting, let us know how it goes.

 

Cheers

Brett

[smirq]

Will do. Still researching a bit, but will probably do it next weekend. Figure it's worth a shot before shelling out for Eco-Complete or something similar. I already have a fairly wooded aquascape, and don't mind the tannins. Hopefully the clay in the Soil to Sand will also help balance the Ph. 

Edited by smirq, 17 November 2013 - 02:30 PM.

[sydad]

 

Mostly, I'm just more comfortable with the idea of "coconut husk" in my tank than I am of "decomposing moss from a bog".

 

Coir fibre will actually break down in water to release not only small amounts of tannins, but also relatively large quantities of sulphur compounds that under reducing conditions (such as under other substrata). Peat moss on the other hand, far from being "decomposing moss", is actually about as totally decomposed as possible. The use of peat moss in aquaria is well documented over the past 6 decades or so, and provided the source is satisfactory, is totally safe in aquaria; in fact, with many difficult-to- spawn species the use of peat moss, or extracts therefrom, is "necessary" to effect satisfactory results.

 

Syd.