65 replies to this topic

[joop]

Ammonia or nitrite does not affect corals, fish i will need to wait for but not long, due to the good quality of the live rock i have got it should be cycled in a couple of days

nitrate and ammonia dose effect corals and can kill them, man you need to read up abit more on coral keeping or talk to a marien bioligest or sumthing sum 1s been filling your head with sum bad advice

[Iamsam]

honestly man having corals and no skimmer is a disaster and an expensive 1 at that iv got a fully stocked coral reef n 1 day my skimmer stoped working without me knowing and it whent downhill fast

and skimmers dont take out more good stuff than bad if the stuff so good why is it a brown sluge in the skim cup and anothe bonus with the skimmers is yo can conect an ozoneizer to it wich is a must for most highly stocked marien tanks

coral neeed the most pure water you can give them especialy sps corals they will die with to much nuetriants in the water

corals do not need the water to be skimmed, take a look at gavins tank he has not skimmer,you will find many coral systems dont use skimmers, also im only have 3 fish in there so there will not be a huge amount of waste from them, i do know what i am doing here

[Iamsam]

I cant see how it will be cycled in a couple of days,
your going to have ammonia and nitrite spikes as the
living rock settles in.

the live rock was complete cycled when i bought it, ive been testing the water and i had a ammonia spike of 2 on the first day and by the second the nitrite was already braking down, i now have no ammonium nearly no nitrite and a tiny ammont of nitrate

[joop]

corals do not need the water to be skimmed, take a look at gavins tank he has not skimmer,you will find many coral systems dont use skimmers, also im only have 3 fish in there so there will not be a huge amount of waste from them, i do know what i am doing here

his works becouse he has large soft corals and morphs wich feed on the nitrate and the extra nuetriants and abit of luck
but you hav chucked so much stuff in ther sooo quickly its gona be bad without a skimmer

[Ado1968]

That's cool, but its not the live rock that needs cycling not like a wet/dry or cannister filter it's the tank in general.
I'm not trying to be funny or anything,just offering somr friendly advise.

[joop]

the live rock was complete cycled when i bought it, ive been testing the water and i had a ammonia spike of 2 on the first day and by the second the nitrite was already braking down, i now have no ammonium nearly no nitrite and a tiny ammont of nitrate

the nitrate cycle takes alot longer than then a couple of days

[Ado1968]

the nitrate cycle takes alot longer than then a couple of days

Yeah joops right.
Any shortcuts here will be a hand full of problems later.

[Iamsam]

nitrate and ammonia dose effect corals and can kill them, man you need to read up abit more on coral keeping or talk to a marien bioligest or sumthing sum 1s been filling your head with sum bad advice

i have seen takes bigger than you can dream of with corals in them the day after they have been rocked up without any problems , and have my coras are going great guns, the ric has opened up larger than i have ever seen,

in fact alot of corals use ammonium

as can be seen here

Addition of ammonia led to elevated chlorophyll levels, and enabled these corals to withstand light and temperature stress. Unenriched corals, which showed evidence of bleaching, sometimes released large amounts of ammonium. Nutrient availability may play an important role in the response of corals to environmental stress.

as seen here

[Iamsam]

That's cool, but its not the live rock that needs cycling not like a wet/dry or cannister filter it's the tank in general.
I'm not trying to be funny or anything,just offering somr friendly advise.

you may have noticed i am not useing an other filters apart from liverock

[Iamsam]

you may have noticed i am not useing an other filters apart from liverock

this is not my first tank,
i have set up many reef tanks before and have helped countless others to do the same and am yet to have problems, each to there own way i guess

but i think you guys are treating a coral tank to much like a fw tank,
its a complete diffrent ball game,

and FYI, i plan on adding a refugium down the track

[joop]

this is not my first tank,
i have set up many reef tanks before and have helped countless others to do the same and am yet to have problems, each to there own way i guess

but i think you guys are treating a coral tank to much like a fw tank,
its a complete diffrent ball game,

and FYI, i plan on adding a refugium down the track

ye im hell treating mine like a fresh water tank thats why my salinity is 1.025 hell fresh water hay, people have differant ways of doing salt water sum are right sum are rong

just a question iamsam how long have you been doing saltwater?

[Iamsam]

ye im hell treating mine like a fresh water tank thats why my salinity is 1.025 hell fresh water hay, people have differant ways of doing salt water sum are right sum are rong

i did not mean in your salinty levels i meant in your filtration etc. i cant rember if it was you or the other guy (and my comp. is stuff up and i cant be botherd going back to check) but the comment about having to use a cannister filter, now everyone in the marine game knows you dont use canisters etc. on a reef tank are they are nitrate producing factorys and it is nitrate that will kill your corals,if you use a canister it is it is generally made in to a fuge or the like, why does it matter how long ive been doing sw, in fact its probably better the shorter i have been doing it, you may have noticed that the whole salwater game has changed in the last couple of years and even in the last year, i mean just a couple of years ago people were using undergravel filters and we now know that that is the dumbest thing to do in a sw setup, and if you are really so intrsted i have been in the saltwater game for only 3 years, but i have learnt from the very best. how long have you been doing saltwater?

[joop]

ye it wasnt me who said bout the canister
iv been in the s/w game for about 5 years

[golden_dase]

this is not my first tank,
i have set up many reef tanks before and have helped countless others to do the same and am yet to have problems, each to there own way i guess

but i think you guys are treating a coral tank to much like a fw tank,
its a complete diffrent ball game,

and FYI, i plan on adding a refugium down the track

Sam.. you're doing a great job trying to explain things.. lol

However, i think you're trailing away from your initial goal: "my purpose behind this thread is to try show other people that setting up a marine tank is not that much work and not that expensive, thus I will include rough prices (cant rember exact), its going to be a bit of experimental tank, I don’t plan on using any mechanical chemical or biological(bar live rock) filtration I also wont use a skimmer"

Just to help you a bit further with others comments... in a tank with coral, you'd need skimmer... in a fish with live rock only set-up, with not many fish... no skimmers are needed..

Cheers!

[Iamsam]

Just to help you a bit further with others comments... in a tank with coral, you'd need skimmer... in a fish with live rock only set-up, with not many fish... no skimmers are needed..

now just to throw a spanner in the works and keep you guessing,i would have to say, if you are new to marine keeping of any sort add a skimmer, im not using one just due to the fact that i am a free spirit and like to try new things and do it diffrenltly, i mean if we didnt experament with these sort of things we would still be adding slatwater for top ups **note** in a marine system the water evaperates but the salt dosent, thus if you add more salt water to it you salinty level rises so you need to add freshwater (preferrable RO as it is purest) to keep your levels stable

[dazzabozza]

diffrenltly
experament
importent
becouse
marien bioligest
braking down
ammont
differant
evaperates

Guys some of your spelling is atrocious... geez!

Just so you know, A LOT of people are reading this "Marine Discussion" with interest because 1) they might have experience to share or 2) They're looking at setting up marine and want to see results from other people's experience whether it's a full marine set-up or just a basic one...
Mate, please be clear on the topics....so to help others understand better...

Can't agree with u more here Golden_Dase. A lot of claims are being made without much explanation as to the benefits, downsides etc. Its getting late now, I'll add a further reply sometime tomorrow.

Dazza

[Gavin]

I hope my tank journal thread didn't cause all this fuss
I don't even know Iamsam.
Time for my 2c.
I make no reccomendation as far as using(or not using) a protein skimmer goes.
Iamsam didn't ask for a critique of his methods from what I read he is simply documenting his setup - whether it works or not will become self-evident.
The way I read his comments he is not advocating newbys to follow his example(refer where he suggested using a skimmer in another thread).
There is more than one way to run a reef aquarium (Berlin, Plenum, mud fuge, algal turf scrubber etc) one way is not "right" or "wrong" and I know of others with completely different systems that also work fine.
There is no point to this arguing, if Iamsam succeeds or fails and documents it them we may all learn something from it.

[golden_dase]

Gavin, I support your comments!

The only thing I am concerned about this forum is people should "speak" from first hand personal experience.. not from what they've heard elsewhere etc... (this comment is not directed at IamSam, It is my own opinion regarding posts in forums..)

I really wish Sam all the best in his new set-up. I'm learning from it.

Sam, you're a bit like me.... experimenting our own way... no matter what others say! haha!

Cheers all !

Kevin.

[Iamsam]

Ok time for my disclaimer

1. The rock that I purchased was 100% cured hence very little die off and quick cycling time. Also I am yet to add any fish (note mandarins are in another pre-set up quarantine tank)

2.Re: the skimmer debate, I have Used skimmers on my other marine tanks and yes they work wonders, and will ALWAYS recommend that you add one to your tank, but i also believe my tank can work wonders without one.

Most of my knowledge I have got from my boss Paul, from marine west/AAA who has been doing marines for 20plus years and 15 pro. He has constructed tanks from a few hundreds dollars right up to $300,000 plus and i do take on board what he shares with me, and even he questions me not using a skimmer, But this is an experimental tank and for that reason i am not using one, When i am working i will always stress to customers to use protein skimmers, and for any of you planning on setting up a tank i RECOMMEND YOU ADD ONE.

My purpose, in starting this journal was yes to show you that a marine tank is not that hard to set up, but i also Plan on trying things my way,

Also I apologies for my spelling, I’m hopeless at it but will try better (plus my online spellchecker just died)


i guess time will tell how this goes, I will make sure i regularly update this thread and i look forward to discussing this with you further
Thanks and regards
Sam

[Iamsam]

also here are my plans for the tank:
I only plan on keeping 3 fish, my lovely mandarin pair and a flame angel, and many many corals, I am also planning on stocking it heavily with shrimps, cleaners coral banded which ever will mix fine,

ammonia is nil
nitrite is nil
nitrate is about 5, will do a 25% water change in a few days to make that 0,

and will start adding more corals,
and I will add the fish as soon as I can find a flame angel *rare as hens teeth lately*
but the mandarins will have to wait a few months until I have a large cocopop and mysis colony build up for them, Although they are eating frozen brine and the likes which is excellent

Also i apologies to anyone i have confused or offended