19 replies to this topic

[dazzabozza]

Gday

This fish as well as a couple of rainbows are showing signs of sores. Not sure if it's due to bullying or some sort of parasite. Could it be worms? I've seen stringy white poo also. Currently on the 3rd day treating the tank with Melafix. This is the same tank that wiped out a heap of cichlids over the Xmas break.




Dazza

[Cawdor]

I'm not docfish but it looks to me like something internal swelling rather than external sores. Combine that with the white stringy poo and the location of the swelling and i'd say it's either internal bacterial problem or worms.

Oliver will have a better idea but this is my guess.
Tim

[dazzabozza]

Thanks for the feedback Tim

Here's a couple of pics of the rainbows. One has a sore near the tail and the other has some wierd looking tenticles under its belly. Worms or just an odd looking reproductive organ?????





Dazza

[Mr_docfish]

Yeh I'm here, got stuck on another thread, drained me head, had to get another bourbon......

Right darryl, I think you got it circled, Tim got it nailed, and the fish have sore asses from Camalanus worms, with secondary bacterial infections.

Give Levamisole a go: http://www.perthcich...showtopic=12291
and with that, add some Oxytetracycline or Trisulpha (or both with valuable fish) either in the water or in the food at the same time as the levamisole.

you will loose some of the fish, but you will save the rest, good luck

Oliver

[Mr_docfish]

PS, it would probably be a good idea to treat at a later date with Metronidazole or DMZ to get rid of any flagellates, they tend to have a go at weak fish like these and hamper the recovery.

Oliver

[sydad]

Hi Dazza,

It is not uncommon for rainbowfishes to develop ulcers. In my experience these are non-specific in cause, and are often a response to stress or sub-optimal conditions, though some people regard the ulcers as being due to a more sinister cause; specifically mycobacteriosis. I was never able to isolate any acid-fast organisms from ulcers that developed on my own fishes, but that does not necessarily mean that such organisms are not the cause of these lesions.

The use of Melafix seems to slow the progress of the ulcers, but I have never seen a "cure", and the fish ultimately succumb. The good news is that quite often no tankmates are affected, even when of the same species as infected fishes.

Syd.

[Blakey]

just a quick question... the fish you lost previously in this tank indecember... did they suffer the same symptoms?

[Mr_docfish]

It is not uncommon for rainbowfishes to develop ulcers. In my experience these are non-specific in cause, and are often a response to stress or sub-optimal conditions, though some people regard the ulcers as being due to a more sinister cause; specifically mycobacteriosis.
Syd.

Syd is right, the stress in this case is the Camalanus worm - see last pic. (if one has it, the others will have it too)

In this case, the ulcers are indicative of the camalanus infestaion, that is the bacterial ulcers are secondary. The secondary bacterial infection is most probably aromonas or other common bacteria that takes advantage of the weak fish and get into the blood stream of the fish through the wounds caused by the worms.

Hence I recommend a wormer and an antibiotic at the same time. The antibiotic is not necessary, but will help in severe cases.

Oliver

[dazzabozza]

Gday all

Oliver, thanks for the diagnosis and recommendations. Only one problem though....... you're CLOSED today!!! LOL! Of course I had to drive there to remind myself 8O Oh well. I'll try and swing past some time tomorrow if u'd like to prepare the meds that I'll need.

Syd, thanks for the info on the rainbows. I had a feeling they were more suspectible.

Blakey, the losses I experienced before was primarily with cichlids. Accelerated breathing, lathargic movement sitting on the substrate, paralytic shock. It didn't seem to hit all the fish at once. It's like it attacked one fish till dead and then moved onto its next victim...


Dazza

[Mr_docfish]

Sorry about the Monday thing :oops:
When deregulated shopping hours come in for good, you will find most LFS will do the same, just look at Melbourne and Sydney. For now, this is the only day we can get things done, such as maintenance, without interruption and the staff always have the Monday off, (most of them are public holidays!) and since good staff are hard to find, this is a sweetener to keep them on board.
I will be in Tuesday if you want to talk to me directly.

Oliver

[dazzabozza]

Gday Oliver

Thanks for sorting me out today with the meds etc.

Mind running through the instructions once more? Or even better if ur feeling really proactive write up a seperate post on the meds, pros n cons of their use etc so we can make it a "sticky".

I would like to know more about the meds u supplied today (Levamisole & Dimetridazole) as well as Trisulfa as I haven't seen this used widely in Perth. In particular their purpose, whether they can be used simulateously etc.

Dazza

[Mr_docfish]

there is a sticky on the levamisole, this is the link from that sticky:
http://www.loaches.c...hydrochloride-1
Use this first (basic instructions are on the jar). If the fish don't eat, treat the whole tank, or remove the ones that don't eat and treat their separate tank.

I will give you the rest of the info tomorrow, going to the ANGFA meeting right now, hold onto the other stuff till then.

Oliver

[Mr_docfish]

Sorry for the delay.

By now you will have treated with the Levamisole (at least once, good idea to treat again in 7 days and again on the 14th day)

Treat now with the DMZ for the next 7 days, daily if you can. Follow the directions on the jar. Again, if there are any fish that will not eat, treat the fish in a separate tank by treating their water.

It is OK to treat with DMZ and Levamisole at the same time.

If the fish blow out in bad bacterial infections (due to the damage done by the worms), you may have to treat with Trisulpha or Oxytetracycline, but only if the fish are worth it (rare, expensive or prized) as I do not recommend using antibiotics unnecessarily as it may encourage resistance down the track.

Let me know how it goes

Oliver

[dazzabozza]

Thanks for your help on this one Oliver. One thing I did struggle with in regards to the directions on the bottles were the quantities. E.g. 5g per 1kg of food is useful for commercial use. I only need to dose about 20g of dry food. Next problem is trying to measure the amount of food and medicine accurately. Can anyone recommend some suitable digital scales (needs to measure in increments less than a gram)?

Dazza

[Mr_docfish]

Just use approximate levels.
One way of working out the volume of the powder is dividing the powder in 20 parts (20g to the jar) (or split it in half and divide one half into 10 lots) These lots can be wrapped in foil to use later.

Dry food can be done the same way, otherwise just guess. It is Ok to over dose these products, (up to but not over 10 times).

Any difficulties, let me know.

PS< You can bring your food in and use our scale, it works on 1g increments.

[dazzabozza]

Gday

Treatment finished quite a will back but a couple of fish have since developed some issues.

First fish has a growth on top of its head and the second has development a fungus like growth on the lower part if its eye.









Other fish are looking healthy.

Still related to the worms or something else???



Dazza

[Mr_docfish]

Both look like tumorous growths, not bacterial. It could have something to do with the former infections, lowered immune system or side effects of the treatment, but hard to say. Can't really do much with this, just wait and see what happens, also I would feel that it is a total coincidence that two fish have similar problems, would not expect others to come up with similar problems.
Keep me posted with new pics in the next few days, I am interested in how this develops.

Oliver

[Mr_docfish]

Hey Dazza, how are the fish going? any changes? or any more fish with the same problem cropping up?

[viid]

[quote] You can get digital scales that measure increments of 0.1g and upto 50g from "Joynt Venture" in perth or freo. Range from $70 to $160 dollars depending on quality.

-viid

[dazzabozza]

Gday

Both growths have increased in size, I'll try and grab some more pics soon.

Digital scales from "Joynt Venture" hey....? I wonder wot ppl that buy stuff from there would use them for???? LOL


Dazza