69 replies to this topic

[Salpon]

There's some great discussion on here now that the bickering has stopped. I just wanted to add that I love Midland Pet and go well out of my way to visit now and then. 'Supermarket' stores will never have the same character, range of stock, experienced staff, or enthusiasm that LFS have. But having said that, if the nearest sponsor store is a half hour drive away then it's not so easy to be 'loyal'.

[ZOLTAN]

I've been into some of those super chain stores ( not often ) and their range of stock and prices don't even compare with the real stores aka our sponsors. If push comes to shove, maybe our sponsors can do the same thing and branch out to other areas.

[jase87]

Aquatic Dreams- i would say your job would be very secure, it sounds like the store you work for is very popular, and advice and quality will always get a store further. more stores opening near yours will only benifit your job because it is free advertising, so aslong as you keep the good service and range up you will find your job will be as secure as anywere.


Fish Antics- We may buy bulk but us larger stores focus on different areas than the LFS, you cant compare us. (The larger stores generally (always exceptions) are staffed by sales assistants) this may be true in some larger stores but city farmers focus on filling there aquarium sections with staff with long industrie knowledge "quarentine, ex LFS workers, Breeders etc etc." you will find most cf stores have huge experience in that area. and we also do take trade-ins of all fish big and small and i buy about 70percent of my cichlids and catfish from local breeders. so we definatly support the hobby.

cheers jase

[dazzabozza]

(Aquatic Dreams, Better to support a sponsor than a supermarket chain store.. They deserve no advertisement on this forum IMO)

cheers for your very supportive input Aquatic Dreams. although we are not a sponsor "which i wish we were", we are asmuch a part of the hobby as all of you. supporting ALL stores north and south due to quality, advice, and price i think is far more important than puting it down to brandings such as "supermarket chain store", as this site is designed for everyone in the hobby.. IMO

Jase

Gday Jase

Welcome to the PCS forums and thanks for the input you have provided into this topic. It's good to see there's someone like yourself who has the hobby and fishkeeper's interests in mind rather than just making a buck. This has definitely not been my experience (knowledgeable / specialist staff being engaged with the customer) in the majority of warehouse chain stores I visit. Hopefully they can hold on to you coz usually when quality staff are lost usually the quality of livestock (maintenance regime, health aspects) and/or good advice is lost too.

In regards to advertising here unfortunately for your employer it's not a free for all in regards to businesses. The PCS has worked hard over many years to establish good relations with our sponsors. The connection between the club, its members and sponsors it what keeps the PCS running (the club/society, not so much the website).

There's a good explanation of how all that works here - http://www.perthcich...showtopic=24767

Sponsorship info can be found here - http://www.perthcich...showtopic=28569


Feel free to continue to participate in forum discussions but be wary of our rules when promoting your store. Whilst we don't prevent people from mentioning non-sponsor business names on the forum its done on the assumption that someone has spotted a particular item whilst passing the store and is helping out a fellow member chasing that item. An employee advertising on behalf of a non-sponsor (on a regular enough basis to be spotted) would be seen as a conflict of interest though.

Chuck me a PM if you have any questions / queries related to the club.


Dazza

[fourdapostle]

Having been in retail now for some 35 years also management you see the so called 'super stores' come and go. The electrical situation is the same, it would seem most in retail are in a similar situation. Where one sees growth in towns, large usually eastern states companys descend on the areas, but in my honest opinion they bring more business to the smaller specialised private stores. Service is the key to retail no matter what you have in store, most are just fed up with cheap, because you just don't get the serrvice.
When the Goodguys came to Rocky most thought very negatively about it in the electrical stores, to me it just made you better at what you do. Sure price comes into it, but if you are a salesperson you can tell if a person wants info to buy from you or up the road...Staff have to be trained and equipped to handle this very different retail situation which is constantly changing and will change all the time. This is why stores need sales people those that know how to keep quiet and listen. If you know what I mean....

[joey]

There's some great discussion on here now that the bickering has stopped. I just wanted to add that I love Midland Pet and go well out of my way to visit now and then. But if the nearest sponsor store is a half hour drive away then it's not so easy to be 'loyal'.

that is exactly how it is for me too.
the closest stores for us is midland and seaview.
i do try to get there as much as possible but it just cant happen all the time.

anyone want to open up a shop further north?

[Terror Tamer]

hey all. Yeah im with Jase87 city farmers is a great store and with great advice. the quality of fish is exceptional as well. also city farmers supports the little breeders like myself with trade ins and good prices for regulars. i like aquatix, vebas, malaga aquariums, city barn ect but we really need more stores further north. im defernately with Joey on that one. for myself city farmers is a great option because its close, competitive and the staff are super. i understand the whole support the little guy but if thats the case then we need more little guys. BP&G i think are rubbish, they no jack all about fish (eg: trying to sell me a tiger oscar as a red devil haha)
CF no's what there talking about and i will continue to show my loyalty where it stands. after all this is a forum and is open to opinions.
Regards Terror Tamer

[highlucks]

You're just saying that cos ur a tang fan his range on malawi cichlids is great

Last time i spoke to Kev so was he. Go into any store in WA and they will always have more malawi's than tang's but that is just how it is.


For me it is all about knowledge of staff. I would rather see a new comer to the hobby go to an LFS and get the right advise to get it right the first time. Rather than to a store and get the wrong advice, the wrong fish, the wrong set up and loose interest in the hobby because they have been given a bum steer.

Like the lady I saw at a BP+G She had just bought a tank the day before and was in the next day to buy a filter. The store assistant helping this lady then proceeded to ask "if she would like to take some fish today also"? To which the lady replied "will they be ok" Store assistant "Yes they will be fine". I was under the impression there is something called a cycling process for a new tank.

Now I am sure you can all figure out the outcome of this situation. Dead fish, money wasted and a disheartened new aquarium owner.

[captaincurly]

the better pets and garden in beechboro (i think), has actually just redone their entire store, and now have a bunch of new fish.
i think i'm the average buyer, and i try to go to my LFS most of the time, cause they're just so friendly!
but they actually have some healthy loong fish at better pets and garden
so i'll probably buy some from there.
i have no idea what they actually have, but their tank equipment etc are more expensive than my LFS anyway.

[ewoliver]

I think city farmers currambine is a great store they provide me all the information I have needed setting up my new 3 ft and I was very impressed by their organisation and range of cichlids. I can fully understand why people are getting angry that is why I try support a few of the sponsors

[fishgalsoup]

what stop Midland Pets and or any other LFS to join the group? WIN WIN situation where you have the expertise of staffs/fishes and buying power of a big chain store! Bring up this business model with the owner in your next meeting and your job will be safe! Don't go see the owner with an empty head though , no gut no glory, toughen up sista!

[Kieran]

I shop at quite a few different LFSs. One shop for lighting, one for dry goods, one for tanks, and some of those for fish too

[rant]

Working in a BCF since the chain opened in WA in 2006, I've seen the gradual transition of many retail stores from helping customers find the best thing for their situation to almost a 'self-serve' expectation. The plan looks good; ie. you put less staff on, all cheap teenagers, and only train them to stock the shelves and merchandise the bulk-bought goods nicely, then the customer can walk in and pick up what they want without anyone having to 'sell' the product per-se, keeping costs down so they can undercut competitors' prices. But in practice it does not work -- nobody's going to come into my shop and self-serve themselves the correct fridge, or inverter, or high-end lure, or depth sounder etc. You need someone in the know to help you down the right path, because this is your hard-earned money that you're using on your minimal leisure time, and you don't want to waste either. And yes, I do see myself as a 'customer assistant', not a 'salesperson'.

To be honest I have never walked into a CF and been approached by a knowledgeable salesperson. Same for BP&G. I understand perhaps not all stores in the chain are like that, but those bad experiences have negatively impacted my spending in those chains.

Chain stores do not care as much about individual customers. The company CEO & Board are not in direct face-to-face contact with customers at all times. A chain store employee might care about the individual customer, but they do not dictate the business directions the chain follows. Little LFS on the other hand need to maintain a healthy relationship with their customers; they simply do not have as many. IME if a big chain store screws you, when you go back for answers they'll often have entirely new management and staff to the people you bought that product from 10 months ago, and they sure won't remember you buying it. If a LFS screws you, the same person gives you the refund that sold you the product, and after getting your refund you don't go back, you tell all your fishy mates at your fishy club what poor service you got, and they don't go back either. It's basically why I'm with iinet for my internet.

[/rant]

Yes a couple of chains have attempted to maintain the customer service approach to sales, but I personally think once a chain gets too big the bunnings/kmart/coles/walmart/bigW/et al style approach takes over. It does ship me when some LFS don't put enough staff on for me to be served within 30mins though. I think you all know the one or two I'm talking about.

I'll have to drive up to Currambine one day to ask for Jase though

what stop Midland Pets and or any other LFS to join the group? WIN WIN situation where you have the expertise of staffs/fishes and buying power of a big chain store! Bring up this business model with the owner in your next meeting and your job will be safe! Don't go see the owner with an empty head though , no gut no glory, toughen up sista!

This is happening in the outdoor leisure retail stores. Eg. BCF owns Campbells Pro Tackle now (not a secret), but the pro fishos there still run the joint.


I'm Kieran, part time at the Cannington BCF (chain) store by the way; ask for me if you want a realist's advice on camping and boating gear. I like helping people, but I'm not there often anymore

[Den]

I agree with Tony on this one, you just need to look at what woolworths and coles do, they play very dirty, they destroy competitors and then immediately take advange of the reduced competition by putting their prices way up, they buy up land and leave it vacant just to stop other people developing it and putting a competitor there.

The corporations manipulate the public like a bunch of silly rats, people cue up to save $2 on a tank of gas after they have been over charged at least $150 on their weekly shopping trolly.

I used to shop at woolworths, my average weekly shopping bill was $280 since shopping at Spud shed my weekly bill is down to about $95.

I boycott corporations whenever possible. Having a few people with power in charge over the majority is never a good thing.

Cheers
Den

[Fox]

Our fish is in no danger what so ever. Its the front of the store that I worry about. Big chain stores have the buying power to buy in bulk therefore offering more discounts.

no gut no glory, toughen up sista!

Put yourself in my position before you say toughen up....

[Salpon]

Its the front of the store that I worry about. Big chain stores have the buying power to buy in bulk therefore offering more discounts.

As I mentioned previously, I rarely buy drygoods from CF because most of their products are aimed at beginner fish keepers. They don't stock NLS which is the only thing I will feed my fish, and they don't have many of the upper scale products that real enthusiasts want like Eheim filters and Jager heaters etc. Continue stocking quality/specialty products and you will continue to have customers.

[tranced]

what stop Midland Pets and or any other LFS to join the group? WIN WIN situation where you have the expertise of staffs/fishes and buying power of a big chain store! Bring up this business model with the owner in your next meeting and your job will be safe! Don't go see the owner with an empty head though , no gut no glory, toughen up sista!

i dont really understand what your trying to say?? the small LFS should start expanding, opening new shops and trying to compete with huge corporations?

[fishgalsoup]

isn't that pets and garden or city farmers operate as a 'group'?

why not join the group but specialise more on fish and take advantage of the group buying power/protection if any! nevermind about the loyalty paid to the group! Its the surival of the business and the jobs for the staffs are the main concerns or is it?

[Cawdor]

but I personally think once a chain gets too big the bunnings/kmart/coles/walmart/bigW/et al style approach takes over.

In defense of Bunnings, with which I have no affiliation: when I do ask their staff for advice, they all know what they are talking about and generally take the time to talk about the project, come up with different ideas on how to improve etc.

[tranced]

isn't that pets and garden or city farmers operate as a 'group'?

why not join the group but specialise more on fish and take advantage of the group buying power/protection if any! nevermind about the loyalty paid to the group! Its the surival of the business and the jobs for the staffs are the main concerns or is it?

so every LFS should become a city farmers franchise?? that would be terrible!

[Mr_docfish]

There are a lot of restrictions applied to franchises in terms of suppliers and prices etc.... LFS will still want to continue to be independent and have free choice - and this allows for variety and healthy competition (most of the time) so trying to group up will not work unless there is a very strong independent body controlling the "system" to ensure the discounts, orders, supply, distribution, (kickbacks), payments etc are in place.... some smaller LFS cannot become part of a group due to the initial costs involved.

If I may....... one should consider the American situation - some years ago when Walmart took up aquarium products, the LFS in the USA were concerned they would not survive.... on the contrary, the best ones survived and are doing well. The even better ones have opened up franchises and are competing well against Walmart and other supermarket style chains that carry aquarium goods. In general, these LFS survived due to the experience and quality that they could provide for those seeking help keeping aquatic pets. The other pets (dogs cats, birds etc) tend to be easier to keep, and most customers will pay for Vet visits to get their information... when it came to aquatic pets, a LFS was cheaper than a vet to get information. Aquatic pets are harder to keep and the precise information needed to successfully keep them is difficult to obtain considering the huge variation between different species and the chemistry behind the health issues. Only dedicated people can provide this information quickly and more precisely if they have the experience and knowledge.

The only thing that hamstrings a LFS is the supply of dry goods - if they cannot get a good price from the big importers/wholesalers, then they will find it hard to compete against discount chains and on-line stores. The smaller LFS rent smaller floor space which costs more per square meter and the knowledgeable staff demand more too.... so the running costs are higher against turnover as compared to on-line and supermarket style / bulky goods chains that rent larger premises that cost less per square meter.


LFS live a precarious life.... but with the right decisions, they will prevail... there is a still a place in society for stores that specialize.

As for NOR LFS..... I would live to expand our shop up there... but the distance to travel to control it makes it difficult.... but you never know what the future brings....... muahahahahahaha