40 replies to this topic

[Buccal]

I can't believe the feedback on the nls I'm hearing. I keep over 120 species of cichlids, mainly Malawi, I have observed and been through what you all have discussed, and switched to trying many other foods, more types over already mentioned, I fooled myself to believe they were as good. I couldn't have been any more wrong. I found myself applying different foods to different fish matching their requirements, what a nightmare, breeding frequency continued as normal for about a month after stopping nls. After that some species stopped all together, spawning became less frequent, and most noticeable was the amount of eggs per mouthful. The colors dulled of, some species worse than others, over a longer period of time feeding lower quality foods, the fishes lost a little weight so I had to feed more. This shows that spectrum has a higher nutritional value meaning the fish need less to sustain same amount of nutrition compared to other foods.

Going back to nls proved to me that the ingredients used in this food covers all needs for every specie of fish, everything gets nls and conditions to breed at higher levels. Because of nls high nutrition value, less needs to be fed, in order for this, halve the food till fish looses a little weight then gradually increase amount till the fish holds a medium mass, a new limit will be set. Dusty was mentioned, this happens when it becomes a little stale, keep in tub and put in smaller nls container to last a week at a time. Gill crunching food is normal, smaller size pellet helps, but greedy fish collect more than they can swallow at once, throw in food at intervals of thirty seconds, if this cloud continues I'm sorry but your over feeding. All my fish are breeding like the clappers with a feeding frequency of being well fed five days a week and NO FOOD for two days, missing Wednesday and Saturday, this allows the fish to detox by emptying stomach by excretion. And appetite remains high, disease low and added benefit of the biological system playing catch ups on saturated waste.

This Australian made pellet $86 for 20 kg, it's a black pellet and seems relatively ok on American cichlids, but long term on Malawi and tangs was not good, colors dropped way of as well as breeding, the nls conditions fish so well that when a change is made the fish will stay conditioned for quite some time till it succumbs to lesser nutrition. Hikari clouds water equal to nls when both used incorrectly.
Didn't once dare take all my tropheus of nls. I think for the most part if you all choose a day with no food at all fed, you will see a difference in a lot of ways.

[Hypanheaven]

The comment about stale food is i believe inaccurate, as it happens straight from new from shops and I only buy NLS in the vapor lock buckets, unless of course Australian stock is already stale. In light of all of this NLS is still cheaper than Hikari, being NLS is $140 for 2.2kg, where as Hikari is $90 for 1kg ($200 for 2.2kg), I would defiantly pay the money if it was the be all end all. Last night I even tried just pouring a quarter the amount I usually feed, the food was eaten in around 5 seconds, looked down the end of the tank and could already see the dust going to work on the water.

I also have days with no feeding, and I agree the fish seem alot happier, only problem is when i goto feed them the following day, they are so excited I get soaked in water, a problem I can defiantly live with.

If the colours do fade and the weight comes off i will surely move back to NLS, I'm not trying to leave bad feedback or bad mouth NLS, I want to find out what else is out there that could keep my fish happy and healthy, and maybe my missus happy to when she checks the account after a fish shop run, but it is refreshing to know that other forum users are having the same problems and maybe there is an answer.

Buccel, what made you go off NLS to try the other foods, something must have triggered you to want to change and try other foods?

Edited by Hypanheaven, 31 May 2012 - 07:28 AM.

[Terry]

I stopped using NLS about 5 years ago because of the above problems, I found an imported 55% protein food that comes in 2 sizes .8mm and 1.2 mm. All my fish eat it even 45cm bichers.

[Hypanheaven]

thats a little too much protein for mature fish i would have though? You should import the 40% protein food instead that they offer.

[waruna]

Malawi s ranging from15 to 27cm. Using cchlid formula, 2mm pellets,

Tried some food today that's available at $86 for 20kg, and no that's not a typo, you do the maths 20kg of nls would set you back$1300, its made here in Aus and its actual content is not far of nls

Feeding different sized fish with one size pellet will definitely complicate things.

As for the cheaper food i'm sure you could find even cheaper products on the market. However if you'd like to compare the two brands/ingredients and have an open discussion here on this forum please feel free to provide details of this particular brand? I'm sure some members here would benefit from it, i know i will. I am no expert on fish nutrition, but Neil (RD) will surely would know a thing or two, i've learnt something new from every single post he's made. Like i said it's up to you..

If I feed a smaller pellet that the fish can inhale very easily then it doesn't happen so much, but then I need to feed 3x the number of pellets in comparison to the larger pellet. With this increase in number of pellets, comes an increase in surface area when comparing mass vs mass (small vs large pellet), and with this an increase in fine dust that I'm dumping into my tanks.

Hi Alex, I'm a bit confused with this statement, shouldn't the surface area of 3 x 1m pellets and 1 x 3m pellet be the same? The quantity/weight is the same and therefore the surface area should be the same...!

I stopped using NLS about 5 years ago because of the above problems, I found an imported 55% protein food that comes in 2 sizes .8mm and 1.2 mm. All my fish eat it even 45cm bichers.

G'day Terry, i clearly remember you putting this down to a cost factor, also didn't you ask me if you could buy direct from me so you could cut down on the costs? Last time we spoke you said "i'll be calling you once i run out of the current stock i have..". Anyway this is news to me mate..

One wise man once said that there is not a single product or a service that could please every one! And i am fully aware of this. While keeping this on mind the largest fish food reviews data base shows very positive feed back on NLS.

Cichlid forum is by far the largest on the net with millions of hits a week, i'll ist the top three brands and over all ratings: http://www.cichlid-f...y.php?CatID=402

1. NLS: 9.22 (148 reviews) ( Not a sponsor of this forum)
2. Hikari Gold : 8.32 (40 Reviews) (Sponsor of this forum)
3. HBH Cichlid Attack:6.75 (24 reviews)

Quite impressive don't you think?!

All foods/brands add pollution to water, period. As a hobbyist my personal experiences are well documented on my planted tank journal. I had 18 adult Discus, 150 cardinals, 40 Bleeding hearts and about 20 bottom feeders. Not once i had a water quality issue, if excess waste was issue mt tank would be covered of algae. For the record twice a week i add 8g of PO4!

[Anka]

8g of PO4, Jesus.

I'm adding almost equal quantities of Phos-Out

So jelly :3

Like I said, I love it and so do my fish.

I use the community pellets. Do you make something larger and heavier (protein based) that will sink to the bottom the instant you put it in the water?

[Peckoltia]

Surface area of many small pellets in comparison to one large pellet of equal mass is certainly not the same, it is quite basic mathematics.

[waruna]

thats a little too much protein for mature fish i would have though? You should import the 40% protein food instead that they offer.

Protein percentage on a label does not tell you anything about the quality of the protein, or in a form your fish can digest it..

[Craig]

Surface Area of 1mm Pellets:

SA = Pi x D^2
= Pi x (1^2)
= 3.1416mm^2

Surface Area of 3mm Pellets:

SA = Pi x D^2
= Pi x (3^2)
= 28.27mm^2

Therefore the surface area of the 3mm pellets is 9 times that of the 1mm pellets.

So you could feed 9x 1mm pellets and "in theory", have the same surface area as a single 3mm pellet. Of course this is assuming the pellets are perfectly spherical, which they are most likely not.

Craig

[Hypanheaven]

Hey terry,

If you did stop using NLS due to cost, you really havnt done your self any favors buying what you have bought. IMo it doesn't look that great, and at $55 per kg, you havnt saved your self a cent, and a probably feeding you fish inferior food. I don't see how feeding a 45cm birchir 1mm pellets of a protein content of 55% is something to boast. At 45cm he's getting fairly close to maturity, and from what I read in alot of different places, a mature fish shouldnt be fed high protein foods.

Not having a stab, just pointing out some things, if you disagree with what I say, no worries

Edited by Hypanheaven, 31 May 2012 - 10:32 AM.

[scotty81]

Nutrafin Max that I have at the moment doesn't cloud the water at all. Not any cheaper then NLS though. I think a Hagen product

Edited by scotty81, 31 May 2012 - 10:58 AM.

[Buccal]

Buccel, what made you go off NLS to try the other foods, something must have triggered you to want to change and try other foods?

This post has been edited by Hypanheaven: Today, 07:28 AM

I breed fish for profit and I'm a major supplier, the more food costs, the more it eats into profit, always trying to find cheaper alternatives on a variety of aspects to better profit margin. The added benefits to using nls way outweighs the extra cost. Any way, if after feeding a slight haze appears, so what, it disappears with average to to above average filtration. My belief is that if the cheaper pellet doesn't foul the water in any way, it's likely to be made of crap and basically is gutless in protein. The ever so slight haze from nls is the digestable beefy goodness. Useless additives that work like a glue to form a pellet in cheap foods are not as digestable so doesn't break down as fast as nls.
This may make you happy with a little cleaner water for an hour or so but not the fish as far as nutrition goes, don't get me wrong there are plenty of other good foods, but hence the name SPECTRUM, covers the needs of all fish.

Cost of spectrum is basic really, for every one bucket sold in oz, there are probably 120 buckets sold in America, slight exaggeration to prove a point, like every one knows, the more you buy the cheaper it gets and supplier can still profit, simple.

[dazzabozza]

A poll of what foods people use can be found here - http://www.perthcich...showtopic=21435


I've cleaned up this thread including off-topic posts (the topic being "what alternate brands do people recommend") and unauthorised commercial content. Any indication of someone being able to supply dry-goods (to the extent of listing a cost of the product and shipping) if there is a demand for it is classed as commercial promotion.

See the Unauthorised commercial trading (not permitted) section here for a detailed explanation - http://www.perthcich...showtopic=23905

This excludes Group Buys and Club Members being able to occasionally onsell as excess items they may have to recoupe costs (shipping etc.)

PM me if you have a query / concern regarding the above.


Daz

[waruna]

Surface area of many small pellets in comparison to one large pellet of equal mass is certainly not the same, it is quite basic mathematics.

I guess we were both wrong lol. 9 x 1mm pellets compared with 1 x 3mm pellet seems like a lot of food doesn't it? I honestly believe this is a simple issue of correcting the pellet size and the amount fed. But it's ok we don't have to discuss this any further, good luck with your fish keeping

I'm going to be honest this is no "basic mathematics", at least to me lol! Craig, thank you for doing this, i know you are busy studying for your exams

Hello Andrew, we do have bigger pellets.. I'll PM you the details. Yes i do add 8g of PO4 twice weekly still

A bit about the NLS prices in AUS.. As far as i know i am the ONLY importer of a high quality aquarium food in AUS who hasn't increased their pricing in the past eight years. The cost of buckets and smaller jars has gone down considerably. Because of this very reason we are no longer the most expensive aquarium food in AUS

If quantity is the main factor when purchasing fish feeds NLS will not be your ideal product. We are and have always been about quality, Pablo will never compromise when it comes to quality ingredients!

Like i have said in this thread previously if any one is up for a friendly discussion about other brands and their ingredients and would like to compare with our food (NLS) please start another thread and i'll be more than happy to answer any and all questions. Of course i'll be asking Neil to help me

Buccal, Thank you for your feed back

Thanks to Daz for keeping this thread on track, much appreciated.

[Terry]

Waruna
I have never tried to buy food from you direct, you have offered it to me over the years at wholesale prices. I declined the offer because using it at the shop that I was working in at the time I was aware of the problems it caused. I have 13005 ltrs in my fishroom I don't need extra work. Yes I did consider changing "when my current stock ran out " but I decided the brown haze wasn't worth it.
I use NLS at work it is a good fish food, if I only had a few tanks at home I would use it.

Hypanheaven
I have never used NLS at home only at work,. Thank you for your advice on feeding bichers but do you realy think that I am that stupid. They also eat earthworms, mealworms and guppies, angels and any other unwanted fish that have been fed 55% food first, they also get beefheart and prawn. I don't undrestand what you mean by
"you haven't done yourself any favors" and in your opinion what doesn't look great?

The Topic is: No More Nls - What Else Is There That Everyone Recommends
I responded with a recommendation and offer, in my opinion my experiance with fish gives me the qualifications to say it is a good food. I am not interested in which food is better, this food works for me. With 170005 ltrs in tanks and ponds I have lots of fish and 1kg of the 55% food plus other food is used per week. Cost is very important to me and I have found a good high protein food at a good price.

[Terry]

Hypan
It realy is a good food and I don't pay much for it because I buy 20 kg at a time, if I was to sell some I would have to put on a mark up. However as I said to Daz above I withdraw the offer to sell it. The people I buy from do not have a 40% protein food so you must be thinking of another type of food.
Oh! the bit to Daz is gone too

Edited by Terry, 31 May 2012 - 09:48 PM.

[waruna]

No Terry, as you were leaving Midland i clearly remember you asking me if you could still get the food at a discounted rate since Midland was giving it to you at a reduced rate..

This is going way off topic.. My last reply. Funny thing is i just got a PM from Hypanheaven asking me if he could buy buckets direct....! After all the food must be ok then...!

Enjoy the long weekend

[Hypanheaven]

Well after some trial and error, looks like my fish dont particularly like other foods. i tried mixing other foods in with the NLS and they picked the NLS out of it believe it or not, and i had to clean the other foods out. Maybe i could ween them off of it slowly but i really dont think it is worth while. I would like to try sera-flora but i have used flakes previously and it made more mess than the NLS.
One reason that im not quiet keen enough to try the cheap food, is i have to buy 20kg of it, not thats a too bigger problem, but i dont really have anywhere to store it and keep it fresh, since 20kg would take nearly 1 and half years to finish.


Like Buccal said, even though it does murk the water for a but, the nutritional value is good and for some reason my fish are addicted to it like crack.

Edited by Hypanheaven, 01 June 2012 - 08:49 AM.

[waruna]

Hypanheaven, i don't think the issue was with your fish not eating the food.. It was the cost and the water quality issue.. (since then you have edited your original post today).. My suggestion is to feed a mixture of 1mm and 2mm pellets in very small quantities. Feed half of what you were before and then slowly increase the amount over a month or two.

All the best with your fish keeping

[Hypanheaven]

There are more foods im going to try, next i think will be the aquotix brand food, and see how i go with that and maybe the AOA food, i will post my results later on.

Thanks for the advice Waruna, but in doing what you say i would need to buy 2 buckets, which is great in theory, but not so great on paper. And lets be honest, you and i both knew from the very start that you wouldnt sell to me direct, you wouldnt be able to other wise the LFS would be up in arms, but it was nice to see you posting up that i had PM'd you about it, says alot. I edited my post's to try and sound not so negative towards to NLS which i thought you would have been glad about?

I hope this feed back from the PCS community about the murky water etc gets back to your R&D team to maybe help improve NLS to maybe make it the best food.